Job Discussion Forums

voodikon · Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 1363 Location: chengdu

a coworker and i had accepted a part-time job teaching a few saturday-morning classes at suzhou high school. each class was to consist of about 20 students, and we were supposed to generate conversation among/with them. due to unforeseen circumstances, the coworker has bailed, but i'd still like to do the job. the boss has called and said the only option is to combine the classes, thereby doubling each class to nearly 40 students! my questions are 1) what kind of "conversation" can be had among 40 people? and 2) should i negotiate a pay increase for this increase in bodies? (the now-absent coworker and i had already negotiated one increase before this incident.)

any words of wisdom?

lily · Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Posts: 200

1) It's possible. Had an email from a guy who taught at a school I'm considering going to - some classes were in the 60's. He just taught them a conversation, then they practiced it in pairs. He then added in a few other bits and pieces (diff responses to questions etc) and they practiced that. Did this again, and you have a 40 min class filled.

Not sure if this suits what you're supposed to be doing, but you could give it a shot.

2) You can try.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I don't see your dilemma: in what way does it matter whether 20 students are supposed to talk to their peers, or 40 students?

Another matter: are your wages going up as a consequence for your extra efforts?

AsiaTraveller · Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:23 pm Post subject:

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

Double the students, double the pay.

Easy as that.

The money your co-worker was suppose to get should go to you if you're getting his/her former students.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I second Great Wall. Otherwise, stick with your original 20 students and don't worry about the others. They'll be fine. They'll find another teacher.

cimarch · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 358 Location: Dalian

Thirded. Think about it, the school's still making the same amount of money from the students. If you don't get the money that was going to go to your colleague it's just more profit for them. You're the one with the extra workload, if anything one class is easier for the school. Fight for it, if you don't they'll realise that they can lumber you with as many students as possible and rake in the cash.

voodikon · Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 1363 Location: chengdu

thanks to all for the sound advice. i tend to agree but wondered whether the "double the students, double the pay" mantra was too demanding. of course the school makes more profit, but who i'm concerned about are the students, who will be receiving less quality (less individual attention) for the same pay. but then again, i guess that should be the school's concern, not mine.

lagerlout2006 · Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 985

To the above 3. By this logic should he get (say) 50 RMB to teach 10 students. Or perhaps 10 RMB an hour if only 2 students. If the rate is not pleasing-don't do it! If it is a high school the students may not be paying at all.

Anyway I would suggest going with the original agreement. Teach 20 students---perhaps one batch on rotating weeks.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

To answer Lagerlout: No, not at all. He already has a certain agreement (I assume) to teach 20 kids for a predetermined pay. If some kids drop off or don't show up for certain lessons, then the pay should stay the same. What if a new student joins the school and he suddenly has 21? If it were me, I wouldn't fuss too much about it. However, I would probably advise to go to the school head right now and discuss this matter. What is your maximum number you would teach and still retain the same salary? If you don't discuss this now and get a written agreement, it may bite you in the b u t t later on.

Sadly, I have new kids coming to my school all the time and my classrooms swell by another head or two and I don't have a say and I certainly don't get paid by each sullen little face out there.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I don't think you should get double your original pay - far from it. Your workload does not increase proportionate to the number of students. As I see it, this is a private training centre, and they are ruthlessly enrolling all the time. Used to be the same with adults in previous years. You think you have made your teaching plan for the next 4 months. Error! Every week, you come across a couple of new faces. Old ones may drop out and suddenlyreappear. These private classes are highly inefficient. There is no cohesion among the learners and between them and their teacher. Once you think you know their needs - another four newcomers have to be integrated.

The CHinese side is not familiar with western, i.e. enlightened classroom management and teaching methods. They assume that if you can chorus "the traffic lights are green!" with ten learners, you can do exactly the same thing with 40. They don't assume you will find any differences between your students' English levels as the students rely on their college pass grades (all too fantastically good to be true!) and they choose the level at the training centre by themselves.

My advice is to try to steer your school towards maintaining the same classes, and form new ones with new students. Try to kleep the same number in one class, and form new classes with those students in excess of the original 20. There may be scheduling hurdles, but these must be accepted and overcome!
You will soon find that you can hardly help the individual student; if you talk to one, the rest will engage in Chinese chitchat, and not listen to the corrections of one of your students.
I have my students talk in front of the class, with everyone listening and everyone facing the problem of understanding CHinese English speakers. IT's a wholesome experience - for them!

voodikon · Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 1363 Location: chengdu

again, thanks for the input. (for the record, i'm not a "he.") roger, it's not a private training center, for whatever difference, if any, that makes. and i did strongly suggest that instead of adding more students to each class, they simply add more classes, but they wouldn't hear of that. finally i relented and said i could try it with forty students (and yes, i'm imagining a lot of presentations, small-group conversations, and the like), but as i haven't yet signed the contract, i believe that allows me to continue to make amendments.

all that aside, the boss has worked in u.s. schools and seems, in many ways, fairly westernized in her thinking and, what's more, understanding and sympathetic (she's the one who mentioned it would be unfair to me to double the size but didn't know what else to do).

of course, i could just drop the whole thing since i'm already working a full-time job. i was just looking forward to interaction with high schoolers as i'm around adults all day.

voodikon · Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 1363 Location: chengdu

robert: thank you for your poignant, if bluntly stated, opinion. (have we forgotten that even on the other side of that inanimate tangle of monitor and cables that there are humans on the other side, humans who, generally speaking, appreciate some common courtesy? but i digress.) as previously stated, i have not yet started, i have not yet signed any contract, this is not my primary job or even one that i will depend on for income, and thus, if it's as miserable as you prematurely insist, i can simply NOT DO IT. but i'll keep your naysaying in mind, and decide, based on my experience saturday, later.