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[go_ABs]

HELP!

Bart Simpson is alive and well, and he only speaks Chinese. He goes by the alias "Nathan" in my English class, but he's as bad as ever. He kicks and punches other students, even when a teacher is watching. And the classic Bart line when asked about it: "I didn't do it".

Speaking when he should be listening, slumped on the desk when he should be speaking, knocking other students around when he should be playing peacefully. And old enough (9) to know better.

I've seen the mischevious smile when he gets an idea for something nasty to do, and thinks I'm not watching. I've seen the other students roll their eyes as he gets told off for the millionth time. I've seen his mother tell him off after class, all the while his eyes searching for more places to spread his unique version of trouble.

I'm at a loss for what to do with Bart. I've tried positive reinforcement. My Chinese teaching assistant has tried sitting next to him almost all the time. I've spoken to his mother, some of his other teachers, the headmaster, et al. Everyone says "He is like this in all his classes. He needs discipline at home and school equally. He is a very active student."

Active is okay, pain-in-the-a$$ is NOT. I think his mum tries, but fails. I think all his teachers try various methods, with small degrees of effectiveness.

So: has anyone out there successfully dealt with Bart Simpson? Advice / comiserations welcome. Cheers.

[kev7161]

We have a bunch of these types at our private school. Most of them are of the age you are dealing with, but there are some in the Junior and Senior departments as well.

At our last FT meeting, one of the foreign teachers asked why we don't get the parents more involved with their child's behavior at school and give them a call to come here right away when there are problems. Many of the FTs are at their wits end trying to deal with their kids and we can't seem to get backup or support from the higher ups here. When the teacher asked about parental involvment, I made the comment that most parents just drop their kids off and forget about them while they (the parents) go on with their lives (not to mention that some parents live a HUNDRED kilometers or more away from our school!). Our FAO said that was simply not true. The parents truly love their kids due to the one child law. (???? this is what he said, not me)

I think some parents in China have that one child as it is expected of them: graduate from college, get a job and build a nest egg (men . . . and some women), find a spouse, buy an apartment, have a kid, get grandma and grandpa to raise the kid for the first 4 or 5 years while mom and dad are pursuing that elusive bigger and better job, at five years drop the kid off at school (for the next 13 or 14 years), live happily ever after. I'm sure there is a form of love in there somewhere, but I don't think love is necessarily the biggest factor when it comes to doing the "expected" life plan.

At least the mother of your Bart Simpson seems to be trying, but I'll just bet you that this kid was spoiled rotten for most of his first EIGHT years! It's the Little Emporer Syndrome we've all heard about.

[Norman Bethune]

[latefordinner]

Kevin:

[burnsie]

I want photo evidence. Post it here.

[lily]

photo evidence of WHAT??

A kid mis-behaving? A parent trying to discipline their kid? That a parent loves their kid? That parents don't love their kid? That there is / isn't a one-child law? Or that latefordinner was a Bart Simpson??

[Roger]

There are quite a few miscreants, punks, truants among our sterling darlings!
In a middle-school, I was warned one day that one of the 17-year olds was going berserk, shouting rude and racist abuse at foreign faces.
I didn't see him that day.

But about one month later, he happened to sit in my class. I noticed him when I was asking him to do as the others were doing; that was to find a partner and study a question. Instead I got the reply, at the top of his voice, with all 64 fellow students instantly turning their heads: "You foreign swine... get f*ck out of here... I am bored... leave me alone!"

Well, complaints to the school were fruitless. They hushed it up too so that the parents of that nimkopop never learnt about their son's antisocial behaviour.

Many teachers are in fact pretty afraid of these youngsters and their power. You can't complain too often to their parents because parents shrug their responsability off too.

[Norman Bethune]

[burnsie]

[Dalaoer]

[Atlas]

this is a tough one, particularly when little Bart gets in high school.

Sometimes I got a good response when I would make the offender stand in the hall for 1 or 2 minutes, Long enough to be singled out and embarassed, but not long enough to get too bored out there. But they could not come back in or leave until I gave the order--this much is paramount. You dont want them coming or going of their own accord. (I had the advantage of a glass wall).

Then the next time they misbehave that day, you can say, "Will I ask you to leave two times in one day? If I do I must make a record of it, and talk to your parents". I dont know why but this worked for me. The hint the second time around was enough for them to moderate their own outbursts,

But this is no cure-all.

This is a deep modern problem that goes beyond one classroom.
Of course kids have acted up since ancient times, But what can you do to modify their behavior? Positive reinforcement often amounts to a weak bribe and I dont care for it with problem kids. It sends them the message that the more they act up, the more attention they get.

Of course it never hurts to praise them randomly when they are sitting quietly or picking up the pencil when you ask.

Misbehavior = attention = affirmation

Another thing I did with some success: make other groups stand up for punishment, but do not allow the perp to stand up. This embarasses them. I've had bullies begging to stand after one minute, when the whole class was doing it. Not that it ever led to a longterm solution.

You can't control others, but you can control yourself. Plant your butt on his desk and teach from there, ignoring him completely. Don't even argue with him or say anything. He will learn, every time he grabs attention, he will have more than he wanted. Here comes teacher to sit on his desk. after a couple of minutes of this, he is humiliated. The key is in not engaging him directly. He will just argue and get attention points. And he will learn that if he is quieter, the teacher stays way up there.

Well, good luck. Wish I had a magic squirt gun to offer you. When he becomes a teen, his teachers are going to pay the price of all these years of his practice.

[go_ABs]

[Roger]

Quite frankly, I deem the familiarity that some of us affect in dealing with students and colleagues as misguided: to introduce ourselves with our first names to all and sundry creates ambiguity and forestalls respect.

I learnt in my first school from how Chinese teachers do certain things. Do they say "call me Will"? Do they allow students to use their cellphones in class?
They in fact expect them to show an awareness of who is in command; the teacher enters the classroom, all students immediately stand up and greet the entrant.
Not so with foreign teachers. I ask you: why not? You are making a serious pedagogical mistake. There is no democracy in classrooms! There must be hierarchy!

I was recently even lauded for showing off my approach. I was in a room of supposedly rude youngsters of very well-to-do parents. I was even told that as a foreign person I was not allowed to punish them in any which way - for example by standing them in the corridor! What a gloomy prospect! My superior introduced me to them, but her voice didn't carry over the din of their speaking for long. I seized the chance by speaking direct to the class by ordering them to stand up.

Lo and behold, they knew the ritual from their Chinese teachers, and they promptly stood up (even though I was their first foreign teacher to order them to stand...). And a resounding "Good aft, Sir!" was offered.

Later I heard from the Principal that she was overjoyed at how I had handled that class. So was I! I had been a great success, and I am looking forward to the next session with them!

[lost_in_space]

AB's - I know exactly what you mean. I've got one too!!! Depressingly smart kid - his English is excellent, but his behaviour just sucks... I've tried every possible way of calming him down, but since I only see him once a week (I'm not a class teacher), nothing I do seems to get through to him. Because of his reputation as the class clown (and the fact that a large proportion of the class are troublemakers too), everyone else just eggs him on all the time.
His name is Shady - suits him perfectly......

[Dragonsaver]

Just wondering about a different approach. Instead of singling him out for punishment how about using him.

Tell him how you have seen how smart he is, tell him he should be a class helper. Make sure he knows it is reward for good marks and not mention anything about behavior. Get him to sit at front of the class and put him in charge of handing out papers. Have him lead a group of students in practice exercise. Make one or two other 'high achievers' assistant helpers for the group sessions.

By moving him upfront, he can't hit the others. By motivating him to help others it may change his behavior. Also if he is up front, everyone will see his behavior. I realize this could backfire but it could also help.