Job Discussion Forums

[Nauczyciel]

Hi guys,

I have a BA degree in English philology from a Polish uni, experience in teaching English in Poland and China and the only thing is that I am not a native speaker. Next year I want to try Chinese universities with my girlfriend (she has the same credentials). We have been applying here and there for some time now, received a few promising replies, and all of a sudden, just few minutes ago, I read the following:

[nolefan]

While the situation is not as good as it used to be in China, the demand for teachers still outweights the supply. Don't give up just because one Uni turned you down.

I just came back from a week end in Shijiazhuang where I witnessed the most international mix of teachers ever ( Moroccans, French, Swiss, Germans, Russians and the list goes on...)

If you can't find what you want, let me know and I might be able to give you a hand.

[anthyp]

That is of course a ridiculous response from LIST. And if you were "serious" about your qualifications and ability, you wouldn't even consider accepting such a low salary.

Do you have a CELTA (or TEFL)? You are probably more qualified than the majority of Chinese English teachers, anyway. Probably a lot of so - called "Foreign Experts," as well.

What some people have to understand is that being a native speaker does not necessarily make one a good teacher. Not even of "oral English!" There are too many kids and delinquents running around this country to prove that this is the case.

Don't worry about it too much -- I'm sure somebody will hire you both.

I personally would welcome the opportunity to work with somebody who has made such a considerable effort to study a foreign language, as opposed to somebody who has been speaking English since his or her earliest years, and therefore thinks he or she can teach it, as well.

[waxwing]

The solution, as far as I can see, is to lie. But it might be tricky with Universities, I'm not sure.
Well, narrow minded? For sure. But they have to fill out their forms, write the passport numbers etc. . The email/letter they sent you was pretty appalling though, I have to sympathise about that. I really cannot understand the psychology of some of these people.

[Old Dog]

I have an idea that you have not been clear about your up-bringing. Certainly you and your girlfriend were born in Poland but I'm sure that you were brought up in England, bilingually to boot. So that, from that point of view, you are a native speaker. To round off your education, you took a degree in Poland, majoring in English, etc. etc.

Insist you are a native speaker and so long as your Polish English does cause more trauma to the ear than some English regional dialects I know, you'll be fine. The Chinese teachers will not know the difference and will probably understand you better than they understand the natives of a certain country not far from Australia.

[enigma]

Wow. As much as I hate to advocate lying, lie.

When in China, assume that their hiring criteria reflect only their beliefs about the "face" your pedigree will bring to their school.

They hire native speakers of Whigglish for the advertising value, not because they believe they make better teachers than native speakers of Polish.

With the exception of the (handful of) best schools, you will not be hired if you are not a native English speaker.

If you are qualified, and you really want to teach English, I suggest you look into International schools in other countries. If you really want to teach in China, I suggest you lie.

PM me for clarification.

[TEAM_PAPUA]

That sucks!


T_P

[Nauczyciel]

Thanks guys, but it's getting worse. I replied to her email, saying that we would consider other offers, because there are enough schools willing to hire non-native English teachers. What I got in response is even more unbelievable than the previous letter:

[Roger]

Why we don't hear more about this attitudinal problem is a wonder...
First thing: so-called "native English speakers" do actually get a bonus right upfront, i.e. a job that local teachers only get if sufficiently documented, degreed and certified, plus experienced!

There is a misconception at work here - that - usually monolingual - english techers can do what bilingual teachers whose English is their second tongue cannot do. i believe both the anglophone world and those countries where they hire such teachers are under some delusion.

We are beneficiaries of some reverse racism that excludes local teachers. Since Chinese are rather pragmatic people in business, they ignore nativity in certain circumstances when the market is too pressing. They discriminate against ehir own folks out of commercial considerations.

But, on the other hand, the emails of this Zhang person shows unmistakably how low the general esteem for us is on the Chinese, i.e.e employer side: white skin is all that matters.
That is why it is easy for us to cheat Chinese. Chinese cheat Chinese themselves. We are complicit in some instances. We take jobs from Chinese, and even get paid higher wages.

Even at respectable schools, we are not respected. If this was the case, we would be used differently. We would have to teach grammar and phonetics and writing. And chinese teachers would have to change tack!

We would be deployed at normal schools, not at primary schools.

We would be allowed to change the contents and the syllabus and the exams. In fact, we should do the exams, and our assessments should carry the day.

didn't my superior at our university enjoin me to enter the grades of my students with pencil?
yes, - so that she can lift the bad grades and replace them with better ones!

[ContemporaryDog]

Roger, at my school we DO have to teach grammar, phonetics, and writing. There is some oral work, but the oral component in our end of year exam, which we have to set and mark ourself, is only a small element. The majority of the exam tests grammar, i.e. the grammar that we teach them.

[TEAM_PAPUA]

There seems to be two distinct camps of teachers on this China forum: those that practise Oral English & those that actually teach all elements of the language. Some of us actually do teach grammar & structure, Business English & exam preparation courses.

To the OP, please supply this person's email contact. I for one would like to tell her what I think of her disgusting attititude & I would encourage others to do the same.


T_P

[The G-stringed Avenger]

While I teach oral english, it's not out of choice. The students have Chinese teachers working on their grammar etc. I also have a writing class, though it's more about style than the mechanics of it.

I'd rather teach all aspects of the language rather than just oral english. I'd also like to teach english culture, I'd like my university to do more than perpetuate the myth that one can teach simply by virtue of being a native speaker by not just giving out a textbook and a timetable to new teachers and telling them to turn up... woah woah woah, wake up now, GSA....

And tell that woman where to go....

[Old Dog]

I have a mind to inundage Mrs Zhang with such an avalanche of bogus applications for a position in her organization that her recruitment efforts would be totally frustrated.

[Roger]

Hi guys!

Glad we are sailing on the same boat as regards the teaching of "substantive" subjects! And glad to note that you ae doing a regular teacher's job.

But you will surely agree with me that this female Zhang character doesn't view our presence under such auspices. People of her ilk actually suppose we canNOT TEACH those nasty things. In fact, in the majority of public schools the thinking is that native speakers can only be used for the oral practice of English. I have for years been vehemently of our overseas-born colleagues would agre with our Chinese superiors.
And, even at universities most students get their grounding in the grammar from Chinese teachers; there are some wonderfully knowledgeable CHinese teachers, but there also happen to be a good many who have no understanding of how grammar works. To them, grammar is but a set of rules which they teach - in Chinese of all lingos.
Typikcally, my students hardly know what a "continuous present tense" is. Or an "infinitive". They may know Mandarin equivalents - but they cannot explain them.

[Kurochan]

Hi Nauczyciel.

That woman, in addition to writing atrocious English, AND being rude, is also lying to you about the salary stuff. I've heard Ph.D.'s make between 4,000 and 8,000 depending on the school.

If I were you, I'd keep trying. I know a school in Shenzhen where I used to work hired a Russian couple to teach English -- it didn't work out because their accents were too heavy, but that and other schools were willing to hire non-native speakers. Maybe you can try secondary schools as well as universities? Also, why not emphasize that you can teach grammar as well as oral English? Could you teach anything else too? Nowadays, French is big in some schools, and some schools offer Russian as well. French native speakers are few and far between here, and if you spoke it fluently, I bet you could find schools that would jump at the chance to hire you.