Job Discussion Forums

[almuze]

When I was here before, long long ago in my other life, many turkish people wanted to join the EU. Mostly, the turkish people I met who wanted to join the EU, at that time, were, for lack of a better word, Western Turks" - maybe children of ataturk turks? cosmopolitian turks? You get the idea.... "western turks" loved Europe and almost everything about it.
"Traditional turks" - religious turks? village turks? were a little wary, not so sure what they would get out of the deal, and not so so so eager to join. (yes, of course, all gross generalizations, but generally speaking, this is what I found before...)

Now, with the election of the AK party, it seems the tables have turned. I meet "western turks" who tell me they don't want to join the EU, thier country will be invaded by forgieners, Europe will get all thier cheap labour and they will get nothing, they will lose thier history....and then "traditional turks" are often supporting the EU.

Then, I run into this wierd urban myth sometimes... when talking to "western turks" about europe, now, europe may not be so great, but they still wax poetic about america. Not our buddy George,, but the country, the people, the streets are paved with gold, the food is healthier, the sun is brighter....the Economist is apperntly comparing istanbul and NYC in a cost of living index... great great great...
Around this time, sometimes I will say, just to be contrary, "you know, in america, covered women have the right to work where ever they want, and hold political office, too."
Which gets me this wierd urban myth, which goes - maybe in america they can, but here in turkey, in istanbul, covered women belong to a secert club, sort of like the masons, this secert club hires women just because they are covered, but the women are not really covered, they are only doing it for the job. Then, when they go on summer vacation to Bodrum, they throw off thier head scarves and romp on the beach. So, if we allowed covered women to work where ever they want, they would get all the good jobs, using their secert mason-like little club

really! I've run into this story about 10 times! (and oddly, a friend who lives in france heard it there from a turkish friend of hers, too.) 10 is a lot in my small world, has anyone else run into this? it seems to wierd to be true - as true things often are. Any proof of a massive organization of covered women trying to control the job market?
any thoughts on who wants to join the EU and who doesn't?

[vre]

I think many Turkish people, regardless of their religion or political stance, are fed up with been knocked back by Europe, and sick of waiting and then being given prospects too far in the future for them to start getting excited over and see that they arent doing that badly on there own anyway. They are also starting to realise that the grass wont necessarily be greener there anyway. Thats what I've been told by a cross section of Turks.

I've also heard the ridiculous one about the secret headscarves. Funny huh? I have many headscarf friends. I've not been invited to the club yet. I'll invite you too if I do!

[almuze]

True, sometimes I wonder if the EU for Turkey would be like NAFTA for mexico, which really didn't help them out so much.... unless you count "trickle down economics" as something that could work in reality.
just out of curiosity, are covered women in france allowed to work where they want but not go to university? anybody know the reasoning there?

[Otterman Ollie]

They are urban myths ,these secret clubs with headscarved women,they only meet for coffe and gold parties,no I don't think Anne Summers would get a look in there . Nice idea though !
The majority of Turks deserve in their own minds at least to be part of the E.U, personally I feel it may change the country beyond recognition ,mostly for the good I believe ,only time will tell if the role model they are going to present to the rest of the Muslim world will have the desired effect for peace and stability in the near and Middle East .

[misterkodak]

My wife is Turkish and neither she nor I want Turkey in the EU! We both grew up in Germany. The Germans and other Western European countries have benefitted and exploited the work power of Turks and the military power of the US. The Germans are wetting themselves over the fact that the US may pull out an additional 150 thousand troops from their country. Aaaah, the yankees are going home and taking their dollars with them. Maybe if all the Turks living in the EU would stop working for 2-3 days, the Europeans would see what an impact they have on their society.
I have seen first hand the effects of the European Union. I was in Germany during the transition to the Euro. It was almost like 100% inflation overnight. It made the Russian mafia and big business happy. My standard of living here in Turkey is far higher than it was when I was in Germany. The Euro destroyed the middle class. These days a person has to bring home about 1,700 Euro just to have a basic standard of living.
Who in Turkey will stand to gain from it? Will it be the poorer regions in Anatolia, infrastructure and the Turkish Public School system? Of course not! It's going to be the people who are already playing and exploiting the system... like the idiots who were acting as middlemen for european firms illegally exporting to Iraq between the Gulf Wars, and the ones who are skimming money from the foreign factories that they manage. .. in other words the quasi-criminal parents of the kids I used to teach in the private schools.
Turkey is exploited enough by Europe as it is. Check out the factory pollution and crap work conditions from German and French owned (and managed) factories. Notice the slave wages said factories pay the workers, and the general smug arrogance of the way Europeans try to conduct business here.They'll agree on a price and then the merchandise is sent, they'll try to change the price.
The EU needs Turkey... Turkey doesn't need the EU. Turkey is pretty much self sufficient... agriculturally and industrially. Most of the clothing and produce exported to Western Europe comes from Turkey. I see very few European imports here... aside from luxury goods.
Ages ago, (about 13 years ago to be exact) I had my German landlord tell me that "Turks are German N---ers". Point blank. I find that this is the predominate attitude across Europe. The Germans especially brought the Turks as raw work power only to discover that they're humans. Of course the Turks who have gone to Germany within the last 15 years aren't the folks from Istanbul, Ankara, and Izmir who went over at the beginning for financial regions. The more recent ones are the people from the poorer regions who couldn't assimilate into Turkish society. How the Germans expected them to integrate there, I have no idea. I find it ludicrous that the EU would try to use that as an excuse to bar Turkey from the EU. How many expat Europeans have "integrated" themselves with the culture in Mallorca? It's pretty much a tourist ghetto where every other language is spoken except Spanish.
Turkey will never be accepted into the EU. This would mean having to accept the Turks as equals and give them the same benefits and work conditions as the Europeans. This would also mean having to crack down on the corruption which they all seem to profit from. All the foolishness the Europeans speak about a massive "turkish invasion" is garbage. I've heard no Turk these days talking about wanting to go to Germany or Europe to work. On the other hand, I see more and more people from the EU coming here to work (factories,ESL, and other things).