Job Discussion Forums

[Louras]

Hey everybody
I would like to know if it's possible to teach in China or Korea without a B degree. I hold a National Diploma in Retail business management (3 year tertiary qualification at Technikon South Africa) and a TESL/TESOL certificate. I have been teaching for more than 10 years in countries such as Israel, India and Taiwan.
Would it be legal to teach? What are the consequenses if you get caught? Thanx

[Voldermort]

You will find there are a lot of us teachers here without a degree. It is legal to work here without one, though the job options are somewhat limited, and the salary is reduced.

Given your work experience and qualifications, you are more than covered. Don't let the schools bully you around. You should get a salary equal to that of a person who does have a degree.

[Lee_Odden]

Louras

In order to work in China legally you need a Z-Visa. To qualify for a Z-Visa, you need to meet the qualifications for a foreign expert. In order for the school to process your papers as a foreign expert, you and they need to document a minimum of a bachelor's degree and two years of related experience.

Obviously the experience part is easy to fudge. As for the degree many private English language schools will "produce" a bachelor's degree for you in order to process the paperwork. The police are paid off to look the other way and for this reason it is unlikely you will ever get caught. In fact there are some who are here illegally (working without a Z-Visa) for years and never get caught because their employer has some very powerful mojo working with the police.

Is this a good idea? Many (if not most) of the members here fall into this "instant-degree" category and will tell you that it's not a problem.

Without a real degree you will have to work for private schools and they are basically student mills who don't care about their students or their foreign teachers (I'm talking most - not all). Large classes, usually 8 - 9 hours per day, over the course of 12 hours, on Saturday and Sunday. You're there under false pretenses, would not qualify for a teaching job back home, so don't expect to be highly valued and regarded by your employer or the Chinese teachers. They have to be fully qualified to teach and will earn far less than you with usually abominable living conditions, so they tend to be more than a little resentful.

If you have a problem with your employer, there isn't much you can do really. They will make all sorts of demands on your time with last minute classes and split shifts.

Should you do that? Entirely up to you and what you are looking for and why you want to be in China. If you just want to experience China, are someone who can deal with a lot of crap and let water roll off your back, and just want to do your time and move on, you will be in "good" company here.

If you are looking for a real career in teaching even in China, then you need to go back to school and earn a real degree. With the teaching experience you have already, that should make you very competitive.

[Guest]

I came here to this School 15 months ago without a Degree or Certificate. It is a private boarding School and I am as happy as a pig in mud.

I hope to stay here for a few years yet. True I only receive 3,500 rmb per month, but then again I only work 10 hours per week and have no office time or meetings to attend. I am therefore free to do whatever I wish during the rest of the week.

I expect to earn less than people who have a Degree.

I am treated very well by the Staff at the School and do not have any complaints (about the School that is).

[tradinup]

I just think if someone wants to make a career of EFL they should just finish the damn degree. Even if they want to teach EFL right now. If you can get a position teaching only 10-20 hours a week, it leaves ample time to take courses and complete a degree along the way. Obviously this scenario is possible in many countries. Your students would benefit as well by having a progressively smarter teacher.

[sojourner]

Louras,

As some of the others have already mentioned, you'll probably find it pretty easy to get a job in China. With your qualification in Business Management , you may even be able to find a job teaching Business English, at a tertiary college ! Try to avoid teaching at language schools. While many may offer considerably higher salaries than what you'd get at colleges or unis, you would probably have to work longer hours - and, possibly, work split shifts. Also, at a language school , you may have to deal with a DOS or manager who, after receiving a complaint from some kid's parents, wanting to know "why aren't your lessons more interesting" ? Could you put up with that sort of crap ? If possible, try to get a job in a college or uni.

Re Sth Korea, I'm pretty certain that to get the relevant visa (E2 ?), one needs to have an actual DEGREE - a "National Diploma", even if it took 3 years to complete, would probably not suffice. Check with the Korean forums - or, better still, search for the ROK Immigration Dept's website. Why don't you also enquire with various unis as to whether you could articulate your diploma into a degree programme ? Who knows, you may be required to do only a few more units in order to be awarded with a degree. Having a degree would greatly improve your chances of getting a good job in China - and in many other countries.

Peter