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MattElz
Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: New York, NY, USA
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 Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject: Learning Japanese (teaching yourself) |
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I am arriving in Japan, June 16 and have been taking a conversational Japanese class. So far, it's all phrases - a Berlitz type course. It's all romanji and all spoken.
In addition I have been copying Tuttle kanji cards in a notebook. What else can I do to get a head start? |
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SEndrigo
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Try getting the Pimsleur Japanese course....all you have to do is listen to the CDs. I've found it to be helpful
Only bad thing is, that it's expensive... |
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Munchen
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: From a language hobbyist |
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I'm with the one who suggested Pimsleur. There are lesser expensive versions. Some have been set up in conjunction with Barnes & Noble. Run about $40-$50. The complete master comprehensive courses in three parts directly from Pimsleur are the expensive ones.
Check your local library facilities to see what's available. I don't know your location but some libraries are stocked with Pimsleur and others in which you could avoid investing a lot of money now.
Another one of all audio is one entitled Instant Immersion Japanese which contains eight audio CDs. I got the cassette edition a few years ago but they have updated it and now in CDs. Could certainly be a complement to your present conversation class. Comes in a purple and white box, costs about $35. It is no breeze and takes work but think it's OK.
Since you are so close to arriving in Japan, you will be immersed enough upon arrival and then it will all start to come together.
Like many North American school students, I studied Spanish in high school and University years ago with largely the dreaded grammar-translation methods but it didn't really come alive until I attended a two-month State Dept. intensive program in Cuernavaca, Mexico. We had to memorize a dialogue for "homework" every day working in a small group and come prepared with it to class each day, be able to rattle it off without hesitation with each of us participating going around the table, picking up on it from the last person.
Finally I felt like I was really learning something taking a course and living in a Spanish speaking country. Very important.
So, I wouldn't worry too much. It will come alive when you get to Japan.
For now, just do whatever works for you.
My two cents! |
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MattElz
Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: New York, NY, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ok, thanks... How common is it for an English teacher to learn decent Japanese (in spite of the fact that they're speaking English 40 hrs a week)? |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| SEndrigo wrote: |
Hi,
Try getting the Pimsleur Japanese course....all you have to do is listen to the CDs. I've found it to be helpful
Only bad thing is, that it's expensive... |
There's another bad thing: it is really formal and chances are you'll end up sounding... well... just like a tape really  .
You will pick up the spoken lingo in country way better than outside it.
One thing you could do which would really help is to master hiragana and katakana. Knowing the latter will put you ahead of the field when it comes to ordering food in a restaurant. I'd really advise putting the kanji cards aside until you can do that.
Just my 2 yen's worth |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| MattElz wrote: |
| Ok, thanks... How common is it for an English teacher to learn decent Japanese (in spite of the fact that they're speaking English 40 hrs a week)? |
If you are working at an eikaiwa all day every day you will not learn any Japanese if:
1. you dont study or set aside time to learn Kanji & new vocabulary
2. you go out for beers every night with your coworkers
3. you speak English to the Japanese staff, most of whom speak English
4. Socialise with your students who pay big money to speak English at NOVA and arent keen on speaking Japanese with you, but English
4. Hang out with other English speakers in your free time, amny of whom dont have the slightest interest in learning japanese and will think you are a bit of a dork for wanting to study japanese all the time. (They may laugh at you, but hey, you will be the richer off for it as you can do things they cant do.)
You will be surrounded by English speakers (both staff, students and other teachers) so its really an effort to separate yourslef from that environment.
You dont really say what you mean by decent Japanese (what level and what do you want to do with it? )
E.g. Level 2 of the Japanese Proficiency Test (about a high intermediate level) requires knowledge of 1000 Kanji and 5000 vocabulary. Level 2 requires about 600 hours of study, or 2 hours a day, every day for a year.
Level 1 requires 1800 Kanji and 900 hours of study. When you have Level 1 you know youve made it.
Here are my helpful hints, for what its worth:
1. Get away from the gaijin party pack after work or in your free time. Youll never learn japanese that way.
2. Make an effort to learn 5 new words a day and 1-2 Kanji. Thats 7-14 a week and 800 a year.
3. Have a pupose for studying. Many people want to speak Japanese but its like a dog chasing a parked car. They dont know what to do with it once they have caught it. (become fluent) You have to know why you are doing it and have a goal. otherwise its hard to sit down and memorise thousands of little pictures every day.
4. teachers at an eikaiwa say they dont have time to study. MAKE the time. They find enough time to sleep on the train, play sports and go out drinking with their buddies. get up half an hour earlier or go to bed one hour later. |
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SEndrigo
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| shmooj wrote: |
There's another bad thing: it is really formal and chances are you'll end up sounding... well... just like a tape really .
You will pick up the spoken lingo in country way better than outside it.
One thing you could do which would really help is to master hiragana and katakana. Knowing the latter will put you ahead of the field when it comes to ordering food in a restaurant. I'd really advise putting the kanji cards aside until you can do that.
Just my 2 yen's worth |
Yes that's quite true...it is more formal than it needs to be, but then again, so is just about every study-at-home language course 
Pimsleur is not the greatest, but it's not bad....it helps you learn as you have to keep repeating phrases and it's not too difficult to do 1 lesson per day (there are 30 lessons in each course, 3 courses in total).
However, as you've pointed out, nothing compares with immersing yourself in the country.
How about those community centres in Japan, where they give free or cheap Japanese lessons? Are they all over the place or just in major metropolitan areas? |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| SEndrigo wrote: |
Yes that's quite true...it is more formal than it needs to be, but then again, so is just about every study-at-home language course
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No offence intended. It's just that you mentioned the "only problem" with them and I'd have hated the OP to have mortgaged his house and then find that the tapes made him sound like he was on his way to Japan to conduct a high level business meeting.
As for free classes. I would simply say one thing: they are more likely to hinder you than help you.
I say this, with regret, for the following reasons:
they are by and large staffed by people who have no qualifications
they are by and large staffed by women who "love" to meet foreigners (kind of skews the whole deal)
they are by and large lacking in methodology or materials more advanced than endless photocopies from one very well used textbook and a few B&W flashcards thrown in
they are by and large filled with foreigners who come and go at a rate which gives the class little or no consistency
they are by and large most useful for immediate survival phrases and will find it a challenge to help you past that
they are by and large committed to helping you with such useful skills as writing out each of the katakana figures 70 times for homework
But then again, you might be lucky and find a good one but I wouldn't bank on it if you are serious.
Wolf's story included paying for decent lessons long-term. I myself found a teacher who taught me privately once a week for almost two years. This way, you can almost guarantee progress.
You get what you pay for. |
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MattElz
Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 92
Location: New York, NY, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| What about the "Living Language" Series (Random House)? Any good? I already have it. |
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zorro
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 68
Location: in anticipation of euro2004
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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how about learning online? I found learning online useful for thai writing and pronunciation.
check out this website anyway if you want to give it a go. any japanese speakers may also have some ideas on online learning....
http://www.japanese-online.com/
or perhaps some different sites to begin. |
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ajarn
Joined: 15 Mar 2003
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| shmooj wrote: |
As for free classes. I would simply say one thing: they are more likely to hinder you than help you.
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I've had mixed results with free classes. I went to a 2 hour class where you get paired up with a Japanese volunteer. I got this old guy of about 60 years who made me write out sentences from children's books in Hiragana and Katakana and then read them back to him. This despite telling him and demonstrating to him that I could already read and write and that I wanted to learn conversation. 2 lessons was all I could take. Recently I found another class with an excellent teacher. She obviously has a teaching background - she conducts her classes in true TEFL style. The lessons build on the previous weeks material and are not just aimed at providing a few useful clauses. Give them a shot you could get lucky, afterall it's for free what have you got to lose? |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ajarn wrote: |
| Give them a shot you could get lucky, afterall it's for free what have you got to lose? |
You've done well finding that teacher ajarn. I should have added to my post that you have a far greater chance of finding a good freebie class in an area swarming with foreigners i.e. the bigger the city. If, like I was, you are going to a 60,000 strong city with few foreigners, you might find a good class hard to come by. Heck, you might even find paying for it doesn't help either! |
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vash3000
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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"They`re getting away with it, Scully..."
"They`ve gotten away with it, Mulder."
Gosh, well...
Fresh off of taking on the Bosozoku with pellet guns (and Ammo Girl), and seduced by barely-of-age j-girls in the porn section at the video store, might I reccommend a fast and easy way to get your hands on all your language needs?
Sure... why not?
(Hold on...I`ll have to embed the answer in secret code to thwart the evil minions of Satan)
| Code: |
Krackers are for kids.
Aardvarks are for ants.
Zim the Invader rocks.
Ack was Bill the Cat.
Apples are for Adam |
(Some versions are more suitable for calorie reduced diets.)
Best,
V. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Code:
Krackers are for kids.
Aardvarks are for ants.
Zim the Invader rocks.
Ack was Bill the Cat.
Apples are for Adam
pardon vash ...? |
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Celeste
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Fukuoka City, Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Kazaa? As in filesharing? This has Japanese lessons on it? WHo knew? |
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