Job Discussion Forums

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Universities:

Most (not all mind you) university jobs in China, in my opinion, are to be avoided.

Often, your residence will be on-campus. And your campus could be miles away from the nearest city.

Many Universities and colleges have curfews. This means that they lock the doors in the evening and you are not free to come and go as you please.

You are also limited as to who can visit your dorm at night. Don't expect that you can just parachute into a Chinese university and then live in freedom.

Also, colleges and universities pay a much lower salary than private institutes. Sure, they may budget anywhere from 5000 - 8000 RMB for a foreign teacher, but there is nothing stopping a few people in administration to offereing you only 3000 - 4000 RMB and pocketing the rest without you knowing (thus stealing from both you and the university).

Universities have big budgets. Most make huge profits. What you are told and what is reality are two different things completely.

Back at home, universities are education-driven.

Here in China, cheating is normal. Students rarely, if ever, fail. Bribery is common. "Please pass my son. Here is xxxx amount of RMB".

You as the foreigner are rarely part of this link. It is possible, if you have been with the school for a long time become more relevant. If you are relevant to the students earning their eventual degree, then you will be offered something in return for passing someone.

But most foreigners are not that relevant. They are the gimmicks that draw students. "XXXX University has foreign teachers, so the English program is very good!"

Yes, teaching in a university can be rewarding, but rarely financially.

Public Middle Schools and High Schools:

These students have the highest pressure when it comes to studying. They want to enter the best universities. With this enormous pressure, they often stay up late doing homework, and wake up early to prepare for any tests they might have in the day.

So when it is time to have the foreigner's class, it can be "sleep time" or "play time" or "catch up on other class' homework" time.

If you understand Chinese, you can often hear the kids' soap operas of theirdaily lives. Everything from "My mother beats me too much" to "Mei Hua has a boyfriend! She is such a little tramp!"

It's best not to get involved in the soap operas.

On occasion, wise-ass kids will make sweeping statements "Teacher! Why you can't get a job in America? You not good enough for there so you come here?".

Pay for these schools are often not that great, either. Don't expect nice big 6000 - 10,000 RMB jobs to come floating your way.

They exist, but they are in the minority.

Public Primary Schools:

Basically, you will be teaching huge classes of kids between 30 to 70 students per class depending on where you are.

Classroom management is not easy. Start out strict at all costs. If you start out trying to be everyone's pal, the kids will walk all over you.

Since as this is public school, there will be many kids who will challenge you at every turn.

Talking in class, playing, even the occasional sleeping will be encountered.

Pay won't be great compared to other schools, so be forwarned.

Private Middle Schools:

Spoiled kids. Upper middle-class kids who will get what they want, when they want it. Similar in style to public schools except you will be paid more (or at least have the potential to be paid more.

These schools have money. Don't accept a low wage. The only person who benefits from you getting a low wage is your boss.

Private schools with foreign teachers make money.

Private Primary Schools:

Ka-Ching!

There is a lot of money being spent for little Chinese darlings to "good good study day day up". One of the biggest draws to any private school is the foreign teacher.

Chinese parents put all their eggs into one basket. That basket is the one child they are allowed to have (there are some exeptions, however).

A child is not loved the same way we love our children. A child is an investment in the future. This one child will be responsable for the retirement of the parents, the main reason why boys are prefered over girls.

You will have snotty-nosed little spoiled brats outright cry in front of their mothers if you tell them off for speaking in class. They will lie, in Chinese of course, right in front of your face to their mother. "I was not talking in class but the teacher made me stand up all class for no reason!! He doesn't like me!!"

There are basically two types of mothers in China:

- My son can never do any wrong, and must never be punished for anything because he is a little angel. I will do everything I can to shelter him from the world around him, and I hope when he is older, he will remember how kind I was to him and that he never once got a spanking. Surely, he will reward me financially because I was such a loving mother.

- My child MUST study every day. If I see her sleeping instead of studying, I will inflict severe physical pain on her. I will squeeze the skin on her arm so tightly, it will be a big purple bruise for two weeks. Please teacher, I am far too busy to be a real mother for my kid. Please beat my daughter if she doesn't do well in school. Also, let me know every day if she is good in school or not.

It's not hard to tell which of your mothers fall into which catagory.

Private Language Institutes:

Best money around.

Your boss should give you a nice home, with all the fixings. Also, the pay should be better than 6,000 RMB a month. Period.

This is my first year in China.

Here is roughly what my friend makes:

7,000 RMB / month for teaching 2 hours a day on the weekdays, 8 hours a day on the weekends.

(Plus an additional 3,000+ with his second job and privates)

If you are working for less than 6,000 RMB a month and your school has over 200 students, you are being ripped-off.

This is why:

Do the math. 200 students. Multiply that by how much money a month the kids pay. So, if the kids are paying 100 RMB a month (conservative number), the school is making 20,000 RMB a month.

So, if you are earning 3,000 RMB a month and your boss says he can't afford to pay you any more, it is a lie.

My friend's school has 300+ students and they pay about 150 RMB a month. his boss is still making a killing, but at least he is being paid a fair wage and working decent hours.

He was also given a three-bedroom apartment with a computer.

AND, he live in a small city, so he saves a great deal of money!

This was for his first year.

Any boss who has a private school and offers you less than 6,000 a month, tell him "Thanks, but no thanks", and keep looking.

Remember, do the math!

Kindergartens:

Big, big, big huge massive money! But....

Okay, you will see pee and poo. You will see and hear more crying in one day than the whole rest of the year in any other school.

But you get to sing and dance all day! Wow! Sing the ABC song and get paid for it? Cool!

but most kindergartens in China RIP-OFF foreigners on a massive scale.

Why?


Imagine a big kindergarten with 300 kids, 20 Chinese teachers, and one foreign teacher.

The parents pay on average 500 RMB a month for the kids to be baby-sat and taught everything from Chinese, math, to English.

150,000 RMB a month gross income for the school. Each Chinese teacher gets a 1000 RMB a month. Rent, food, overhead, etc., brings everything down to about 100,000 a month.

Okay, so why are you being offered only 5,000 a month????

The hours are long (usually 8-4) and without you, you're boss would only be making less than half of what he is earning now.

He is earning over 50,000 RMB a month on your back!

Do the math, and n-e-g-o-t-i-a-t-e!

Even a small kindergarten with 50 kids, one boss, a Chinese teacher and yourself would make both of you a lot of money.

Big Companies:

A reliable income (4000 - 8000) teaching adult workers.

Usually talking about the industry they are involved in.

Expect a lot of talking in class, phones going off, that sort of thing. I teach part-time for an oil company and it's a drag at times trying to get everyone to shut the hell up.

But unlike teaching kids, you can touch upon more adult subjects that appear when talking about culture, dating, etc.

You will also get questions from the guys during the break like "Is it true, you are bigger than Chinese man?"

Seriously!

Not a bad job, but it's not all that fun, either. And the students may even press you to hang with them after class or go for dinner with them (be their pet to show off, or give them free English lessons, etc.)

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I really hope this information is useful to you newbies out there!

Please feel free to correct me, add information, make comments, ask questions, etc.!

[voodikon]

[voodikon]

oh, i'll add some more disadvantages of working at a company:

-completely hectic scheduling with classes being scheduled or canceled at a moment's notice because the employees are too busy.

-homework/assignments completely not taken seriously because, after all, they're at work, not school.

-long, office-job hours. on the upside, though, you have all this paid time to prepare your lessons, and probably extra time to surf the 'net.

-having to stay after work hours sometimes because the company does not want your piddly english classes to cut into the time their employees work for them; in other words, the english class is viewed as an "extra benefit" to the employees.

possible advantages:

-can be bluffed to look a little more "credible" on your resume if teaching experience is not what you want to highlight for future positions.

[badtyndale]

Great post. The education business in China is truly a money-making monster that views foreigners much the same way as your local hawker. I worked in a middle school (about 150 students) where the fees were 11000 RMB a year. Needless to say, a single student covered my costs each month.

By the way, don't be misled by private training centres that claim they're taking tax out of your pay. If it is tax then they have to provide you with a receipt to that effect. I recently learned that a well-known player makes this claim but in actual fact the money goes to bribe the PSB because the centre isn't licensed.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[Chris_Crossley]

GWOW is correct when he says that some schools offer expatriates insultingly low salaries so that they can line their own pockets with the rest of what they should pay them. I had a similar experience, which I first shared with you all on October 12 in the thread called "They're breaking the contract rules". Here it is again:

[Roger]

A good summary, though highly subjective (and in parts easy to disprove). In general, I agree with this abstract, though I have some beef with anyone who makes so much fuss about "low" pay in China! My opinion is that you should NOT come to China if you cannot accept a less than glamorous salary level! Stay at home and do whatever you are capable of to make money there!

The facts about the public schools and private ones were relatively good. The kids can indeed be traumatising, though with some tact and experience you can manage well in most schools.

What I find ludicrous is the claim that ADULTS are a piece of cake to tech! Company classes are more often than not anything but intellectually stimulating. Don't make me laugh with claims you can better relate to these adults! They cannot relate to you. And, their English being what it is - due to their Chinese education - you cannot expect them to change tack and learn in a more enlightened way.
In fact, corporate classes often fizzle out within a short time. Participants are free to attend, and many simply abuse their privileges. Their interest in English is highly limited, their ability the same. Pay may be somewhat better than elsewhere - but there is no job security and stability.
If you are lucky the company commits itself to keeping you on their payroll for a specified period. If not, the students will decide how long you can stay there.
Why should they not abuse their privleges? Only Chinese company bosses (usually SOE) are stupid enough to foot the bill for the tuition of thei8r staff!

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I don't think teaching adults is a piece of cake-- far from it!

Their lack of interest is evident when they talk on the phone during my classes, or even when they're out-right napping!

[TEAM_PAPUA]

Excellent contribution to this forum GWoW.

Regarding whether company /adult/kids classes are easier or more difficult to teach depends, in my opinion, on your experience, preferences & of course personality. It is not possible to generalize in this case.

We could also continue by looking into the many different types of private language school - but that has been done before on this forum.

I work at a private language school here in China. I consider it to be one of the best (best reputation globally at least) and previously worked at one of the worst (worst reputation in China). I would ideally like to work at a key university but live privately off-campus: but I guess this will never become a reality unless I rent my own place.

Again, good post.

T_P

[naturegirl321]

I wish that people could make more money, but it seems that most schools pay low salaries. Where I worked, most of the peple I knew were making 3 -4 K a month. And had been there for three or four years.

[ContemporaryDog]

I agree, Nature Girl. Although I know my school is undoubtedly making extravagant amounts out of me, I can't see what I can do about it. Its all very well for GWOW to say 'negotiate' but were I to stay a third year, at the most I can see them putting my pay up to 6000. And that's at the most. It wouldn't matter how much negotiating I did...

I do think there are a few excellent jobs for those in the know, but its down to having the right contacts as much as anything. I know a guy who was in Wuhan last year who had a couple of years expeirence and had made good contacts. He was getting 3000 yuan in his hand. OK, not much, but as well as that he was getting a luxury flat in Hankou, plus 1000 QUID (i.e. about 15,000 kwai) wired FOR HIM EVERY MONTH to his bank in the UK.

You can make 3000 last a month reasonably comfortably. he didn't need to touch the other 1000 quid. Quite a nice little nest egg.

But jobs like that are few and far between...

[ContemporaryDog]

At the end of the day the only way you can be sure of finding a job paying really good money in China is if you are a qualified teacher. A friend of mine did his PGCE a couple of years ago, taught for a year in the UK and then got an international school job in Moscow. I keep telling him to come to China and get a job in Shanghai, because he could have a great life on the sort of salaries they pay (around 3000 USD per month).

I am considering taking this route, as I want to be able to have things like proper holidays, be able to afford to return to the UK to visit friends and family, and not being limited to india and SE asia as the only plcaes I can have holidays in etc. FT pay is good at a local level (I never run out of money at the end of the month) but its just not good globally

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I can't believe that this post has lasted this long.

Mind you, it took me forever and a day to write and research it.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Bump.