Job Discussion Forums

[mandu]

i work in a kindy
i have posted about this class before.
i have a class of 28 k3 students.I have tried team games,songs,stories,being nice,being angry,giving stickers when deserved,just about every trick in the book i can think of.to make it work.

i only teach 5 classes,3 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon,my k3 class is in the afternoon at 3pm.
it never works,i walked out of the class last thursday.my oher four classes are fine,its just this one class that is a problem.now my question is does anyone else have a problem class like this?that your at a point where they are just not teachable?
i really dont care about this class anymore.maybe this is not the right attitude but im not sure what else to do.

another thing just because im a western person i dont have all the ideas it would be nice to get some advice from other teachers that i work with about how to deal with this but thats pretty much imposible.

[Giantbudwiser]

Answer: you cant always get what you want but if you try somtimes you just might find you get what you need......lol

[mandu]

what a good answer

[Guest]

Yes, it is tough - I know I taught smaller kids last year for 8 months and I nearly went crazy. Because they don't understand you, they tend to ignore you. I tried singing songs and making them put their hands on their heads, etc.

Finally, in desperation, I used to print out sheets from the Internet - and I bought a whole heap of colour pencils. I used to get the little darlings all colouring in and try to get them to write under the picture the name of what it is i.e. dog, cat, etc. There is plenty of stuff available on:

www.bogglesworld.com

and numerous other sites.

I think keeping them BUSY is the key - however it is certainly not easy.

I refused to teach them after 8 months and this year I have Junior 1 and Junior 2, which are much better for an old girl like me. I did not have the energy for the young children.

Good luck

[ContemporaryDog]

I teach Grade 1 and I love it! I find them infinitely more enjoyable than last year where I taught Grades 2 and 3.

Just have fun. Play games, sing songs, draw pictures...

[Old Dog]

Mandu, The level of discipline, hard work and attention that a class demonstrates is generally the result of the combination of class personalities together with the combined skill levels or the combined dedication levels of the teachers who have an involvement with the class.

This is certainly true in middle and high schools. Where one or two classes stand out from all the others in the grade as demonstrating less committed attitudes than the others, you can be fairly sure that it's a pretty useless combination of teachers that is in charge of them. Either their teaching skills are weak or they are more concerned about their business on the side or paying for the new curtains or whatever than exercising the care they should in forming the attitudes of their classes.

In Middle and High Schools, there is generally a fairly effective remedy for this. Each class has what is termed a "Headteacher" who wields (sometimes) outrageous powers and uses them outrageously but who will ultimately wear the blame for the lack of performance of his/her group.

If you are troubled by a particular group - and if you know the problem is with them and not with you (a little introspection does not go astray), then speak to the Headteacher and suggest nicely* that you are troubled by the group, that their behaviour is different from other classes in the grade, that, in fact, it is the worst in the grade and wonder if the Headteacher has any suggestions. Suggest to the Headteacher that maybe you should speak to the Principal about the situation and ask what the Headteacher suggests. (* But the Headteacher needs to know, of course, that there is some steel behind your niceness! Maybe it takes the Headteacher sometime to learn how formidable a character you are.)

Now, I don't know if this is the way that things work in Kindergartens but I can assure you that this approach will produce a miracle within the week in Middle and High Schools. What you are doing, in effect, is to tell the teachers in charge of the group to smarten up, which will have the effect of smartening up the performance of the students. But you do it nicely as if you have a problem, as if you have observed certain class characteristics that are different, ... and ask for suggestions. Of course, you don't want suggestions, you only want to make a point and the point is usually very quickly taken. Be assured that this is a miracle cure for restlessness on the part of students and slackness on the part of staff in the sorts of schools with which I am familiar.

Maybe there is something in this for you - and maybe not. Kindergarten organization may be quite different.

P.S. Teachers generally, Such an approach will work where one class behaves quite differently from all others in the grade. If all of your classes are disruptive or inattentive or whatever, the problem is quite likely to be you. If it is not you and this is the standard pattern of behaviour in the school, then pack up and leave. You waste your sweetness in the desert air in such schools.

[go_ABs]

This is a tough question that, unfortunately, probably doesn't have a good answer. Definitely not the answer that you want to hear - there are no miracle cures for this situation.

First of all, a few other questions: do you have a teaching assistant? For that level you really should have.
Do you teach them in a classroom setting (ie with desks and chairs) or in a more open format?
And lastly: how long have you been teaching this class?

The reason I ask the last is that you've tried a lot of things and they haven't worked - maybe you haven't passed the point where the kids understand the process and the rewards for good behaviour? I just about had a nut at one point earlier this year where a few students were spoiling an otherwise good class by acting up. The manner of my teaching gave them opportunity to be more free than in their other classes, and they explioted it - much to my dismay. But I kept on with the reward system I was using, and the punishments remained constant. Now they know: if they are good they get rewards (stickers, candy, etc), and if they are bad they get to stand outside the class and/or a talking to from my teaching assistant and/or standing at the back of the class away from everyone else. And now those problem kids are less of a problem.

If your kindy students are in a classroom setting it seems to me to be easier to single out the students being a problem. It's obvious if they're facing the wrong way or talking to their friends. In an open setting - while I undestand they're only young - they may not realise the difference between times they're allowed to play, and times they should be working/learning. Maybe some manner of designating play time from working time would help?

Your teaching assistant should provide some help. If not, really get on their case. Show your frustration (outside of class time) and make it clear that this class in particular needs extra attention from both of you.

One final idea is maybe asking the parents to come in to observe some lessons. Particularly the parents of the real problem kids. Show them what they're like when you're trying to teach, and the message to behave in class might start coming from home as well? And while the parents are there, at least the child will probably behave a bit better. Temporary relief maybe?

Just some ideas - you will know what applies to your own situation better than I do. But as you say, sometimes ANY ideas are welcome.

Hope this helps a little, or maybe inspires something else.

[kev7161]

I know the language barrier is a problem, so this may not work here (unless you have a good assistant to help out).

One of the tricks I learned that "sometimes" works is spotting a student that is doing a good job and then you say so outloud.

Oh, I like how (so-and-so) is sitting quietly.

I love how (so-and-so) is coloring so neatly, good job (so-and-so).

I like how (so-and-so) said the word "cat", can anyone else say "cat" like this?

And so on. Then feel free to give that same student a piece of candy or a sticker or whatever you do. If you have a particularly good day, then be prepared with some little gesture for all the kids. I don't think that we as teachers should HAVE to give out prizes all the time, but it's what kids understand. As a child, I would get an allowance if I cleaned my room. I've gotten raises and bonuses in my jobs when I've done it well. We all like rewards.

I too teach at the Senior middle school level. I have one really good Senior One class. Most of them did quite well on their last exam and the class was rewarded with a DVD. The other two classes only had a very few who did well. Those that did get an A or B received some candy when I passed back tests. Later, I was asked why no DVD and I explained the best I could on why not. We have another test coming up in a couple of days. Tomorrow I will explain again that if I have a majority do well (A, B, or C), then we'll take a break from lessons and watch a movie. I hope it helps to encourage them to actually pick up their book and study what we have discussed!

[ymmv]

I agree with Old Dog that if you're not having problems with your other classes, the problem lies elsewhere - not with you.

The solution may be as simple as this: it seems to me that teaching a class of kindergartners at 3:00 in the afternoon is a little late in the day for that age group. They should be out on the playground running around and playing at that time of the day - and maybe they know that too.

Try moving them to the morning session and see if that doesn't help.

[mandu]

to start with thanks for the advice.

if i want to talk about classes i have been told i have to wait until thursday after lunch as thats when our english meeting is.i have talked about k3 with the team leader,now the team leader is the person i have to go through with anything i want or need or to talk about.

the team leaders answer to k3 is your on your own,the principles answer to this you are the english teacher your on your on.

the children do not sit at desks the sit on little chairs,my assistant to help me is the team leader.he doesnt do much in class.my students also sit in a half circle facing me as well.they did have a different western teacher last term who just up and left.
and iam amazed by the lack of positivness in the class.i have seen my team leader pick up 2 chlidren and throw them.
i have been teaching kindy children english since 1999,and i have done a certificate in childcare.and in my time in china (4yrs)this is the worst class i have ever had.

i have also been told that these children have been kicked out of other kindys and the class has been a problem for about a year and nothings been done about it.i have been working here for 3 months.

[tradinup]

I think the worst thing to do is give up them. I'm thinking it has something to do with the kids being too tired (the time of day was mentioned) or not enough breaks. Kids of that age only have an attention span of so long; there is nothing you are going to say to make them less tired or agitated.

If they aren't too tired and have had sufficient breakage, then it should be within your power to get it working. If you have to give out punishments, or call their parents and send certain ones home, so be it.

[ChinaEFLteacher]

i can relate to mr. old dog's suggestions for the older kids. i had problems with one class of senior 1 students. the other two classes were very good in comparison. after i talked to the naughty class's headteacher and told her the great discrepancy between hers and the other classes, they were magically transformed. i now have a lot of fun with them.
mandu: have you tried art, such as drawing, painting, or making stuff?
i've never taught such youngins' but that's what i would try.

[mandu]

i made paper airplanes with them today although there was not much english i kept them busy and it worked.
im happy about that

to tell you the truth i really do care,that was just how i was feeling at the time thankyou everyone your help has been good,hopefully i will be just as helpful to you guys if you need it.

[Roger]

Quite frankly, I disagree with people who assert that the language barrier is a significant problem. It isn't, full stop! I think, those who perceive there a problem are thinking in a box.
HBow did these little darlings come by their mother tongue? Right - they acquired it from scratch, without having someone "translate" words into their "first" tongue.
Now they are acquiring L 2, and you can do precisely the same thing - without translation. However, this means you have to do things rather than lecture kids. They are too young to be "taught" the traditional teaching style. The biggest problem here is that the CHinese parents subscribe to exactly the same preconceived notion - that the foreign teacher has to teach English along Chinese words, in a kind of parallel vocabulary. That's eminently wrong.
I don't know if this answers your question about discipline problems with one single class; however, I found that I didn't have discipline problems with any class in over two years because I gave the kids no chance to undermine my authority.
You have to take the initative. Do things rather than merely talk. Think of the TPA.

If I remember your case well, I suggested at that time you make a teaching plan for the entire semester. You must remember what you covered previously, and build on that!
Rhonda gave you some good suggestions on what to do; I second her!

[brsmith15]

Us seasoned guys used to figger about one class out of 7-10 is just not going to work whatever you do. It's not you. Call it the luck of the draw.

Or, it may be the 10-80-10 rule: 10% of your classes will be outstanding; 10% will be horrid and the rest lie somewhere between heaven and hell.