Job Discussion Forums

[martinphipps]

Consider the following. Consider if you agree or not and, if not, why not.

"The language teacher should answer all questions cheerfully without making the student feel uncomfortable. Above all, the teacher should not make try to the student feel stupid for answering a question: the student may legitimately (spelling corrected) not know the answers to the questions being posed. There may also be things that the student may know that the teacher may not be familiar with. By not treating the student with respect, the teacher will not only cause the student to lose respect for the teacher in turn but will forego any chance of positive dialogue between the teacher and student.

"Similarly, if the teacher finds there is something that the student does not know but should, in his opinion, know then he can provide the necessary information without belittling the student. This is especially true when the student makes honest mistakes in spelling or grammar. The teacher should also be careful not to assume that the student's mistake was due to a lack of information. Above all, the teacher should avoid being condescending or else he might find himself lecturing the student about something he is not only already familiar with but which is commonly known.

"The teacher should also respect the fact that the student might have limited resources at hand. The student may prefer, for example, to use books from the library or borrowed from friends rather than buying books himself, especially if these books are not specifically recommended or required and may be considered prohibitively expensive. Indeed, the books in question might not even be published where the student lives or even in countries from which mail order services may be available.

"The teacher should not question the means by which the student tries to obtain the information he wishes to obtain. The student may be aware that he can also find information in his local library or by asking his friends, but the student may wish to ask the teacher nevertheless in order to get as broad a range of opinions as possible. This natural curiosity should be encouraged and not ridiculed.

"The teacher should at all times listen to what the student has to say. If the student has already answered a question then the teacher should acknowledge this fact and not continue to endlessly ask the same question. The teacher should also be willing to apologize if he has hurt the student's feelings or has made inappropriate assumptions about the student that later proved to be incorrect."

You know, I came here thinking that there'd be people here who knew something and could tell me about English education in Japan. I thought I might even be lucky enough to be able to find experts (plural) in the field of English education. Instead, I found was an immature bunch of would-be kindergarteners. I am profoundly disappointed.

Martin Phipps
Assistant Professor at Chungtai Institute in Taiwan
_AND_ McGill Univerity Alumnus, Ph. D., Physics, 1996

[Gordon]

This from you in another thread

[Nismo]

[Sherri]

Would you mind giving me some context? How does this excerpt fit in with your book--I am assuming it is intended for your book.

It seems to presuppose that the teacher is untrained. Is that your intended audience? I can't imagine a trained EFL teacher needing to be told to "answer questions cheerfully" so as not to make the student feel uncomfortable. Trained teachers have very refined questioning techniques, ways to make students think about their questions and ways to make the students' questions work as part of building autonomous learners. Have you read any literature on this? There is tons out there and it appears that you haven't looked at it. If you are really interested I did some research for my MA in TEFL on this topic and I could give you some leads.

To be honest the style or tone of your excerpt comes across as rather condescending, with the assumption that the teacher is snappish, ridiculing, belittling and not cheerful(!!)--meaning he or she hates answering questions? Even if I were a total novice at teaching, it would put me off. It sounds a little Victorian in style.

I don't understand what this part means... "The teacher should not question the means by which the student tries to obtain the information he wishes to obtain." Sorry I am completely lost. What do you mean about "information" and in what context?

This part..."If the student has already answered a question then the teacher should acknowledge this fact and not continue to endlessly ask the same question."

And this part..."The teacher should also be willing to apologize if he has hurt the student's feelings or has made inappropriate assumptions about the student that later proved to be incorrect.

Where is this coming from? What kind of teacher is this? I have observed endless lessons by (trained) teachers over 14 years and I have not seen this behaviour. Again, why not a lesson which positively presents proper questioning techiniques. Instead of telling teachers what not to do (they may never do it!). Just tell them what works and give some samples taken from recordings in your own classroom. Have you done any classroom discourse analysis? If not you should.

I can't understand why you ended your post so negatively when you are asking for feedback on your excerpt. I have tried to give you mine. I mean it in the spirit of helpfulness and I mean to be constructive. I notice your PhD is in Physics, have you any formal training in EFL at all? If not, my best advice to you would be to stop work on this book and look into doing a distance MA. I know you have experience teaching in several different countries in Asia, but this is simply not enough.
Best
Sherri

[Glenski]

martin,
It amazes me that you have come back and posed what seems to be a serious question to a group you chastized in your other post, and whom you continue to chastize with this very message! Just what is your point?

To take the high road, and to try answering your query, I must continue my previous line of thought and say that your excerpt here represents a very small chunk of your essay/book, and that because it is taken out of context, I find it hard to respond with anything more than "it depends".

Is this a section on training teachers? Which type? Where does this tiny excerpt fit into the rest of your book?

Moreover, I can cite you examples that refute almost every line you have written. You use "should" so often that it makes one feel like a child getting a browbeating from an adult rather than someone getting informed information. Perhaps writing "should strive to" would be more appropriate, but I'm not going to go any further in rewriting your book.

You asked us to consider the excerpt, and that is what I have to say. I can't answer for everyone, but I certainly need more information in order to answer properly.

So, despite your snide comment

[JimDunlop2]

[martinphipps]

[JimDunlop2]

Actually, Martin, "Another excerpt" from your topic title, does imply that it is something from your book (since the previous excerpt was, your use of the word "another" in the title indeed leads people to believe yours was original work).

So, what you are telling us is that you have, indeed plagiarized a lengthy quote that you didn't even write but didn't bother citing a reference for? Excellent! Wow! You're coming off looking better and better by the moment.

Indeed, I didn't realize that I was dealing with someone who has transcended beyond citing references for work not written by him. My apologies.

[fizayded]

[PAULH]

[Sherri]

When I responded to your first post (and second) it was from a teacher to another teacher, as peers. You redefined the roles to that of teacher and student--a little strange. In any case whenever I give feedback to my peers, they take what I say on board, postive or negative--what I like to think of as constructive. I think that if you look back at what people wrote you could see that you actually received quite a lot of very good advice and feedback, you just didn't like what you heard. I once asked you if you were aiming your research at children's education (which you never answered by the way). That was actually a questioning technique of mine to get you to think about your focus more clearly.

You aren't impressed with people with post-graduate degrees related to their field--TEFL--just because you knew ONE guy who did not impress you?

"I worked with somebody who was working on a master's degree in TESOL/linguistics and he knew very little indeed about teaching English."

The key here is not just having the MA (or whatever qualification related to teaching English as a foreign language), but having the combination of the experience and the qualifications. I can say for myself that when I started my MA, I had already had over 10 years of teaching experience in 3 different countries and had taught probably over 20 different nationalities. I also had the RSA cert and an MSc in another field. I think many of the people here can give you similar backgrounds.

I take it then, that you have had no formal EFL training?

[PAULH]

I just looked at your link and though I dont read Chinese I read japanese Kanji and they are very similar. I also notice that everyone of your colleagues has a graduate degree in TESOL Linguistics or English. You have a phD in Physics which doesnt really lend itself to English teaching, unless you are in the Physics department at your university, are an associate due to having a PhD (worse things have happened) and you were hired for your physics background. I know lots of teachers at universities from non-English backgrounds as well.

You are only being belittled not from anything personal but it appears that you are way out of your depth when conducting proper research, compared to the position you hold at your university. Getting peeved when receiving constructive criticism from people who are academic peers is not the way to conduct scientific enquiry.

that is what is so surprising to most of us.

[martinphipps]

[martinphipps]

[Glenski]