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MW
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 115 Location: China
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 11:36 am Post subject: IS YOUR SCHOOL MEETING THE NATIONAL ESL GOALS? |
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WHAT ABOUT YOUR SCHOOL?
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CHINA�S ESL GOALS AND OBJECTIVES:
Are they being met?
By: Teng Hai, Qiang, and Wolff
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ABSTRACT
�The incompetence of many graduates from high schools or even colleges and universities to communicate effectively in spoken and written English is related to the teaching methods in China. Students are usually spoon-fed, listening and taking notes with teachers standing at the front and doing most of the talking.� (He Mei, (9/28/00) �English Teaching Method Faces Challenge,� ChinaDaily) �Most of us begin studying English at 12 or even younger. By the time we graduate from the university, we have studied English for over 10 years. However, the result is awful. Many students can say nothing but some simple phrases. Even for some English majors, writing an article in English also means nothing other than making countless mistakes.� (Deng Di, (6/9/00)
Were the above but an isolated comment or two, they would not be worthy of our time to address. Unfortunately, it is all too often spoken by frustrated university graduates and repeatedly heard by us, in one form or another, during our travels throughout China.
It is with the above quotes resonating in our minds that we have embarked up writing this paper in an attempt to share an experiment aimed at remedying the situation of which the above authors are heard to complain.
GRADUATION GOALS FOR ENGLISH MAJORS
The proficiency level required of English majors in Chinese Universities and Colleges is best summarized by Professor He Qixin (He Qixin, (7/00,):
Listening Comprehension: Students should be able to understand radio or television programs of English-speaking countries (for instance, CNN) concerning political, economic, cultural, educational and scientific issues, special reports or lectures on similar subjects.
Speaking Ability: Students are required to exchange ideas with people from English-speaking countries on major international or domestic issues, to be engaged in lengthy and in-depth discussions on similar subjects, and to express themselves clearly, assertively and coherently.
Reading Comprehension: Students must be able to read editorials and critical essays on political issues from British and American major newspapers and magazines (for instance,
Times, New York Times), to understand literature published in English-speaking countries, and to be able to analyze the thesis, the structure, the language and the style of the above writings.
Writing Ability: Students are required to write descriptive, narrative, expository and argumentative essays, expressing themselves effectively, smoothly and correctly. The required writing speed is 300 to 400 words within half an hour. A thesis is part of the requirement for a bachelor�s degree, 3,000 to 5,000 words in length (12�20 double-spaced pages).
If these goals are indeed being met, why the perception expressed by He Mei, Deng Di, and so many others? |
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luceluceluce
Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Posts: 14
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I was involved with teacher training in England last summer. The trainees were all middle school teachers from Guandong. Some of them were from the best schools in the area.
I don't want to comment on their teaching style, except to say they were very teacher-centric and provided very few authentic texts and little spoken practice.
I can comment on their level of English, which was not advanced. Only 3 (out of 25 teachers) would have been put into an advanced class at a language school in England.
Generally speaking, most of the teachers had a very good grasp of the grammar, but could not produce any of the structures or meanings. Most used inappropriate idiomatic expressions, and the range was far too limited.
The worst culprits (bar one) taught English at the best schools. Indeed, the one that seemed to have the most 'kudos' was barely comprehensible to any native speaker. His prounciation was so poor, he even required language assistance (from myself) when in a camera shop. Another, who seemed to have got her job through connections, merely pattered out a narrow range of fixed-expressions ('frankly speaking' 'terribly pleased to meet you').
Very few Chinese students are placed in the upper levels at my language school in England. However, you will notice that the IELTS classes are brim-full of Chinese all pretending to understand what soil erosion is.
Face, societal pressure, parental expectations, rewards based on pixie-logic, inappropriate materials, cultural misunderstanding, poor teaching, poor facilities... etc etc. There are many obstacles in the way of becoming a competent user of English, let alone the articulate and expressive one that appears to be the goal.
luce x |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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One problem is that these students have little or nothing to talk about, have little information in common, and don't know how to seriously talk about modern issues and concerns.
Yeah you can blame some of it on the culture. But when you spend 10 years of your life in a classroom, from before the sun rises until your bedtime, how can you expect these students to understand a complex issue?
Most of their high school teachers, and some of their college techers do not have this high level of english |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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oops, the quote should have been the intellectual depth they are supposed to be able to talk about.
I think the writing standards are a bit lofty, but China loves to have these unrealistic goals |
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Chairman Roberto

Joined: 04 Mar 2003 Posts: 150 Location: Taibei, Taiwan
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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I know exactly what you mean by the "teacher-centric" mentality that plauges English education in China. I've observed my fair share of English classes taught by the locals to get an impression of how English is taught here. The biggest challenge for me was to remain awake...teachers only seem to drone on in front of the class, and ignore any questions if a student has the gall to ask one. But the real problem didn't really become apparent to me until...get this...I tried to learn how to play mah jong. Mah jong? What does that have to do with ESL education? Everything, or nothing, depending on your point of view.
Before I ever played mah jong, I had given the teachers I observed the benefit of the doubt...maybe I was catching them on a bad day, maybe they're strait-jacketed into a cram-style just get the students to pass the national exam methodology, maybe the Chinese mind just acquires language in a different manner.
But I think I found the root of problem when I tried to get the a variety of teachers to teach me mah jong. (The first group was several middle school teachers, the second group my collegues at my normal college). What should have been a fun and innocuous cultural exchange became one of the most aggravating experiences in my life. In reality, I already knew the basics of mah jong. All I really needed was to "brush up" on the rules, and then just play. However, the teachers wouldn't hear of it. All of them kept impatiently barking rules at me, in very broken English (they weren't aware of idioms like "three of a kind" or "throw this away"). It took me a good five or six games to realize I needed a "general" (two of a kind of a 2, 5, or 8 tile) to complete a mah jong. The most frustrating part was the teachers never really allowed me to actually play and make mistakes, the only real way to learn a game. They kept snatching tiles out of my hand when I would make an unwise move, or just barked orders at me rather than explain why I would want to keep this tile or discard that tile. The other three players would sigh impatiently as I would mull over my options (for two seconds) before my "instructor" would make my choice for me.
After 15 games of this, the end result was complete and utter frustration on my part. I was not permitted to make mistakes and just enjoy mah jong...I had to get it PERFECT the first time, or don't play it all. I didn't even bother exploring the rules involving gambling or four of kind...it would have been just another exercise in futility.
Then it occurred to me...could this be the way they teach English? If these teachers couldn't even muster the patience and understanding to aid a novice mah jong player, how much more patient and understanding could they be when a student stumbles over the complex language of English? The whole point of English classes, as far as I can tell, is for the teacher to show off their English skills. Frequently I would see teachers sigh with exasperation of "This is an easy question!" when their questions were greeted with blank stares. There is no room for error in an English class, no room for experimenting with English and learning through mistakes.
My experience with mah jong is hardly conclusive and scientific, but...I don't know...I just saw it as a sympton of a much bigger problem. Teaching English is so much more than memorizing grammar and vocabulary. I hope to somehow convey this concept to the teachers I work alongside with. In fact, this Tuesday I have a "lecture" to give to the English teachers on this very subject. I get the impression the English Dean views me as some sort of magic bullet that will dramatically improve English methodology overnight. My view is the polar opposite--with system's obssesion with national tests that simply do not reflect English proficiency, I feel there is nothing I can do or say to improve ESL in China.
But despite my overall pessimism, I like my job and the country...it's an easy living. And there are students who never cease to amaze me. A few days ago, one student gave me a short essay to correct. It turned out to be one of most profound meditations I've ever read, written in a restrained, yet beautifully poetic style. I'm also very impressed with the diary entries I've assigned to one of my classes. YES, Virginia, Chinese students CAN THINK. If someone gives them the chance.
Chairman Roberto! |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Mr. Chair,
Thanx for the good (long but good) post. I had a similar experience learning Chinese cards. The guy who was "helping me" insisted on playing every card for me. I said how i will I learn if you don't let me make mistakes.
The obsession with tests is true in America as well. Teachers complain they must teach to the test, instead of teaching the student to think. This is a huge problem in the Chinese high school where the importance is not on learning, but on doing well on one test.. (Well actually more...a test to get into the best high school, another one to get into college, where now they feel they have earned the right to goof of, and too many teachers and schools don't care to dispute that
All said, like you, I love teaching here...usually. And I have been lazy as a teacher myself this semester. |
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Dragon

Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 81
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Comrade,
Thank you for posting yet again on the ESL Industry in China. As a teacher here in Beijing I feel that I have fallen down on my duties. Although, I have the requisite certificates to teach English I feel that my students are not fully engaged. Dear Comrade, please bestow on me some your wisdoem which has been portrayed in your dedication of your writings. My young students do not take English seriously and only want to play. I know they are only 10 years old but the x-mayor of Beijing said that we should all learn English. Help me to stop them from playing their childish games. I tell them that even Jiang Zeming speaks English and if they grow up they too can be the leader of the Commuist party but they just laugh in my face. Please help comrade as you undoubtedly have a great zeal and zest and much knowledge in teaching ESL. I wait your reply. Longlive Chairman Mao for 10,000 years.
DRAGON |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Drag On,
You're sincerity and remorse does you proud. That was one of the finest examples of an apology letter I have read in China, my Chinese students nonwithstanding. Don't feel bad. It is not your fault that you grew up in a capitalist society devoid of values. Continue to work hard, rectify your heart and mind, and you can join us in meeting and excelling the goals our visionary leaders have set for us.
(Love the Russian section of Beijing...have you been there?) |
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Dragon

Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 81
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Arioch36,
Thank you for your response. However, I owe a great debt to Comrade MW for his insightfulness. He has changed my views of the ESL Industry in China. I eagerly await his next few postings so that I may print them and put them in my folder. He will lead us into the golden era of ESL in China. May Comrade MW live 10,000 years.
DRAGON |
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