Job Discussion Forums

akyl · Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 13

to all the NETs,
are any of you taking tesl courses to fulfill the certificate requirement on the contract? i can't seem to find a course that is under HKD 20,000. is it really necessary to get a tesl cert. within the first year? what will the emb do if you dont fulfill the requirement? thanks for all any advice!

ozman · Joined: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 133 Location: HONG KONG

I'm not taking a tesol course as I've already got the qualification, but your question is important. What IS the EMB going to do if you don't get the qualification? I believe they are having problems recruiting fully qualified people. So are they going to refuse to renew your contract, or sack you? I doubt it.

My own thoughts are, that if the EMB wants all NETS to get a qualification, then the EMB should be providing something for the NETS. They should be subsidising, or organizing some sort of course here in HK. Maybe the NESTA committee could take this up with the EMB at their meetings.

Professional development is supposed to be available for all teachers in HK. NETS getting a TESOL qualification should be seen as the EMB's problem, not just left to the individual NET. They really should be providing advice and courses on this.

I guess if you decide to do a TESOL off your own back, then you could do it by distance at one of the Australian universities - one where you could "add on" to your basic certificate level. Still, if enough non TESOL qualified NETS got back to the EMB, surely something might be done.
OZMAN.

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Maybe the emb could pay for the PGCE or B\Ed programs while it is at it!

hkgirlo · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Hong Kong

Well, as I understand it....

The EMB SUGGESTS that we get this qualification....note the word suggests...
The circular about the requirement is a GUIDELINE...for principals... Our principals are GOD and its up to them.
Apparently, alot of teachers have not obtained the qualification within the year and it doesnt much matter. (I dont see how its even possible to do it in HK...nobody really offers it evenings or weekends)
The only thing that I know is that it has been used to get rid of bad teachers... if your school likes you then dont worry about it...talk with your principal and feel out the situation. The principal may think its uneccessary or may agree to an online course or a postgrad diploma or something.
Im looking at doing a postgrad certificate at the open university of hong kong in april... but there are no students (so it doesnt follow the guidelines)...
anyways, all of this information comes from a very reliable source...

ContemporaryDog · Joined: 21 May 2003 Posts: 1477 Location: Wuhan, China

[quote="once again"]Maybe the emb could pay for the PGCE or B\Ed programs while it is at it![/quote]

No need if you're a Brit - you can do it free of charge in the UK, plus 6000 living expenses for the year - not a huge sum but its doable.

hkgirlo · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Hong Kong

I must remind myself that negotiation on things like this doesn't really work in Hong Kong, so I am betting that I will have to do the certificate. I have been looking and all that is offered in Hong Kong is the Trinity TESOL at First Asia. They have an intensive summer course in August. Apparently, last August, 6 of the 12 students were NET teachers. Personally, I don't believe in spending the time or money to do Certificates like CELTA or TESOL, when it they are not directly related to teaching children. What is the EMB thinking, exactly? And as I understand it, if I had a degree in geology (as an example) I would not be required to take the TEFL??? So, the only option I see is to do the Cambridge CELTYL. Good luck. Its offered only three places in the entire world as a full time summer intensive program: Barcelona, Geneva and Beirut. Barcelona/Geneva courses begin before school lets out here, so that leaves us with Beirut. How can the EMB expect anyone to do this when there is only one realistic (not so realistic) option. Idiots.

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Perhaps the EMB were idiots for employing people without an EFL qualification in the first place? Interesting that there are people who think that they are qualified to teach EFL without even the most rudementary of qualifications in it. So to expand the topic, do people think that teaching students a languange, in a language that, by definition, those students do not have a full understanding of, requires the same training as teaching English to someone who has it as a native language?

I think that it might be argued that the EMB is paying a lot of money to people who, on the most part, are not specialists in the field, and would do much better to only employ those with specific qualifications in the first place.

mcNug · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 83 Location: HK

Amen Once Again, Amen Amen. I can't stress the word "Amen" enough.

I've seen PE and electronics teachers come here who have never taught English for even a second. Naturally some these people get frightened quickly and leave! Others, will just stick around and try and figure out what to do.

Why should someone with prior experience, perhaps a MA or BA in English and a TEFL Diploma lose out to someone who has taught PE and woodwork with no TEFL qualifications?

AndyinHK · Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 98

I agree with the above. The hiring practices shouldn't be so rigid.

hkgirlo · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Hong Kong

Well, I agree with you. I think people should have ESL qualifications before doing this job, because it is not the same as teaching kids at home. Problem: I have 5 years experience teaching ESL and a B.ED. Now why should I be expected to take a course that is aimed at people who have no teaching qualifications or experience...for people who are thinking of a change and going into English Language Teaching? Thats the problem. The courses are not designed for experienced teachers. Trinity does offer a Diploma TESOL course that I am thinking about which is for experienced teachers, but its more money and more time...and who has that?

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Interesting point about them not being designed for experienced teachers. It seems that the experienced teachers become so rooted in their methods, which are not those shared by the EFL field, that they find it very hard to adjust to the new methodolgy. This point has been raised by every EFL training organisation I have been in contact with. All of the experienced teachers I know that have done a reputable EFL qualification have found it very challenging and have learned a lot. Try and do the qualification first without automatically assuming you know everything they could teach you already. In every case I have come accross, this has not been the case. And I include very experienced primary and secondary teachers in that.

hkgirlo · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Hong Kong

I don't assume that I know everything that they will teach me. That is not the case at all. But i do know alot more than people who have no experience or qualifications and I feel that if I am going to spend my money and time on a course it should give me what I want out of it. This is what I want; a course geared for people teaching children, a course geared for people with EFL experience but no formal qualification. What the EMB expects us to take; a course geared for people teaching adults, a course for people with no teaching experience. I understand what you are saying. I just think that the EMB have ridiculous expectations. I want to get the most out of a course and don't want to waste any of my time. I know the courses are challenging, any thing new would be. But whats the point in taking a challenging course that doesn't directly apply to you. Anyways, I don't have much choice in the matter so I'll just have to suck it up and do the stupid course and make the best of it.

hkgirlo · Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Hong Kong

And, all of my experience is in ESL teaching. I have done research about methodologies and have had other forms of training... and am not stuck in any routines etc.... I assume the very experienced primary and secondary teachers are talking about are experienced at teaching to native English speaking children, am I correct?

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Hi HK girlo..I have re - read my posts and I think they are a little on the aggressive side, so my apologies for that. I have been involved with three training agencies, on both sides of the situation.

The people I know that did the course (CELTA) with me had been teaching EFL for a number of years. They also found it hard to adjust. The CELTA/CELTYL is tough because, at least at the British Council in HK, you are assessed for every minute of every lesson that you do. So..I have records of comments for every single minute of a sixty minute class. Every time I didn't grade my language it was noted. Every time I went into "lecture-declarative" mode, it was noted. Habits die hard!!!

I really believe that the respectable month certs are a great basis for teachers to go on and learn more about the EFL field, and for trained teachers to start to explore the differences in approach and methodology.

The EMB is just trying to make sure that the teachers are trained well. I think that expecting them to have an EFL cert at least is not too much to ask, and the fact that they will allow teachers to get them later may be a point too far on flexibility. It may be that someone who has been teaching EFL for a number of years had still been following the same teaching strategies as they were trained for for "native" speakers, and never thought about changing.

It seems that sometimes there are a lot of teachers complaining that they are being forced to jump through unnecessary hoops by the EMB. At least be thankful that you do not have to do the benchmark as an EMB NET. That would really embarrass a lot of NETS!!!!