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Degrees or no degrees?
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Jared



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 319
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:57 pm    Post subject: Degrees or no degrees? Reply with quote

Hello. My name is Jared. I hear that China is one country which will legally issue you a work visa if you have a TESOL certificate. Is that true? Or do you actually need a degree as well to legally work in China? Also, can you tell me which area's in China speak mandarin? Thanks.
Jared
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Ailian



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 192
Location: PRC!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: Degrees or no degrees? Reply with quote

Jared wrote:
Also, can you tell me which area's in China speak mandarin?

AILIAN'S NUMBER ONE PET PEEVE: IMPROPER APOSTROPHE USE.
(Furthermore, no "areas" can actually speak Mandarin -- it's the people in the areas who can.)

To answer the question you should have asked, Mandarin is spoken throughout the country as it's the national language and thus the language taught in schools. If you want to go to a place where you'll hear "good", "clear" Mandarin, head to the Northeast and get familiar with your "er".
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can teach in China without a degree.

Not "legally", but most schools get around this problem by having a bit of clout with the local government office or lots of money to pay someone off.

Think of pot in Canada. If you smoke a joint, no one is really going to harass you unless you have pounds of the stuff ready to be distributed throughout the high schools.
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tradinup



Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Shenzhen, China

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

APOSTROPHE LESSON CONTINUED:

Apostrophes are used in a few different ways.

1) Contractions are when two words are shortened to become easier to say.

"It is known that..." becomes "It's known that..."

"That is stupid" becomes "That's stupid"

2) They are also used when denoting a subject's possession.

John's dog ran away.

It doesn't have to be a person though.

The area's size was 20 cubic metres.

An exeption is when the subjects name ends in "s" (i.e. Mrs. Jones), where it is

Mrs. Jones' garden was beautiful.



Am i forgetting anything? Grammar is GREAT.
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Old Dog



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 564
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:10 am    Post subject: apostrophe Reply with quote

tradinup wrote:

Quote:
An exeption is when the subjects name ends in "s" (i.e. Mrs. Jones), where it is

Mrs. Jones' garden was beautiful.

Am i forgetting anything? Grammar is GREAT.


In my part of the world, we usually suggest to students that, where a name such as "Jones" takes an additional "s" sound when forming the possessive, the possessive is formed by "'s", e.g. "Mrs Jones's hat".


In addition, in our neck of the woods, we would write "subject's name". Laughing
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justcolleen



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Egypt, baby!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: apostrophe Reply with quote

Old Dog wrote:


In my part of the world, we usually suggest to students that, where a name such as "Jones" takes an additional "s" sound when forming the possessive, the possessive is formed by "'s", e.g. "Mrs Jones's hat".


In addition, in our neck of the woods, we would write "subject's name". Laughing


Would the same suggestion apply if the subject were Mrs. Guiness?

Just curious.

Colleen
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voodikon



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 1363
Location: chengdu

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

to add the s, or to not add the s, that is the question.

the answer depends on which style guide you're following. academic styles such as APA, MLA, and chicago are generally in favor of adding.

the dominant newspaper style, AP, in the interest of saving space, states that no 's' shall be added.

neither is "more correct"; they are merely different styles.

furthermore, i would most certainly not call questions of apostrophe--or any punctuation mark--usage "grammar."
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Old Dog



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 564
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:37 am    Post subject: apostrophe Reply with quote

Justcolleen wrote:

Quote:
Would the same suggestion apply if the subject were Mrs. Guiness?


Well, as for my own personal style guide, if I were to write that they were "Mrs Guiness's step-ins", I'd be suggesting that, out of my mouth would come an extra "s" sound after "Guiness". For me, this would be the "comfortable" way of saying this.

On the other hand, if someone were given to omitting that extra "s" sound, no doubt they would omit the "s" after the apostrophe, e.g. "Mrs Guiness' step-ins". But that would be a bit awkward for me so I'd head in the other direction.

Be guided by voodikon's suggestions.
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came to this School 15 months ago with no experience, no Degree and no Certificate. I do not advocate that you do that, especially if you are young, but I just want to point out that it is possible. I work for a Private Boarding School and they managed to get my working Visa, and Foreign Experts Card etc. without any of the above.

I do not know what I am an expert at - that is for sure!
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voodikon



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 1363
Location: chengdu

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL. how beeped-up of me. i just read rhondaplace's post, thinking, what the hell does that have to do with questions of punctuation?

then i went back to the original thread.

oh.

oops.

guess we got a little sidetracked there.
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Old Dog



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 564
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:18 am    Post subject: Rhonda give advice to Newbies! Reply with quote

Rhonda, it is probably no longer true, if what I hear is true, that you are without a degree. You've probably been provided with a fake Master's Degree (at least). That will satisfy blind officialdom. Of course, you'll do time if ever you're caught out since I'm sure the school will deny any involvement in the fraud. It's a great worry. If I were a Chinese official and lurking in this forum, I'd be checking on those who openly declare that they are here without the prerequisite qualifications, i.e. if someone from your school had offended me, that is. But, as you say, you are in a private institution and things might be different there.

As for coming here without a degree, well, I ask you, what exactly are you going to teach? I guess, if your speech is standard enough, you can give "practice" in speaking English but I wouldn't stray much from there - unless you are one of those hangmen experts, guitar strummers or "let me tell you about my world travels' types. What would possess someone without qualifications of any kind to attempt to pass themselves off as a "teacher", much less a "foreign expert", I do not know.


Last edited by Old Dog on Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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tradinup



Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Shenzhen, China

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

voodikon, fancypants...

In my view punctuation is a branch of grammar, which hardly faults me.

gram�mar ( P ) Pronunciation Key (grmr)
n.

The study of how words and their component parts combine to form sentences.
The study of structural relationships in language or in a language, sometimes including pronunciation, meaning, and linguistic history.

The system of inflections, syntax, and word formation of a language. (dictionary.com)
-------

Periods, commas, numbers, symbols, apostrophes, hyphens, etc. all represent "component parts" to me.

I am open to objections...
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voodikon



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 1363
Location: chengdu

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tradinup wrote:
I am open to objections...


do you really want me to object?
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Lee_Odden



Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Rhonda give advice to Newbies! Reply with quote

Old Dog wrote:
What would possess someone without qualifications of any kind to attempt to pass themselves off as a "teacher", much less a "foreign expert", I do not know.


Well, and I'm just spit-balling here, maybe they had nothing better to look forward to back home?

Of course, not all is lost. These TEFLers, the ones with the fake degrees and no experience, can always logon to Dave's ESL Cafe to sound off the most loudly, obscenely, illiterately and arrogantly about anything and everything and, in so doing, acquire some twisted sophomoric sense of accomplishment and satisfaction in having challenged, drowned out and alienated the real experts and retired career teachers. God forbid they should try to learn from the latter; of course, if they were in possession of that much maturity and intellectual curiosity to begin with, they probably would not have opted to come to China with fake credentials and no prior teaching experience in the first place.

It's not any sort of career or life to speak of, but I guess it beats being unemployed back home, paying Western prices for beer and watching endless reruns of 10 to 30-year old sitcoms.
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2 over lee



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: www.specialbrewman.blogspot.com

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee Odden wrote;

Quote:
It's not any sort of career or life to speak of, but I guess it beats being unemployed back home, paying Western prices for beer and watching endless reruns of 10 to 30-year old sitcoms.



Go on L.O. enjoy it, it's the life you yourself lead, why attack it? BTW some of the posters on this board have worked as ESl teachers in more than just one country.

I have a degree, but I don�t think this qualification is much of an indicator as to whether a teacher will be a �good teacher�( this term being quite difficult to define in the Chinese setting) in China.

The Chinese themselves spend a great length of time talking about qualifications, and as we know due to some rather interesting study methods that the Chinese do not actually learn much from attending class. So for the foreign teacher I would say in some cases it would be fairly uncomfortable if he or she were not able to talk about University experience.

On the other side, of course, is if you have a degree you become an expert in everything. I know this full well from my last job where students asked me endless advice about which University in Britain they should do a masters of Engineering. Finding the the appropriate rankings on the net didn�t seem to cut it. I was perhaps a bad teacher as I did not have a detailed knowledge of engineering, physics, chemistry and vulconology. Some FT�s start to actually believe they are experts in all areas.

I thought the job was EAP and it was; Endless Answerless Problems.
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