Job Discussion Forums

[mrmachine]

i'm moving to japan in late jan / early feb and plan to live in osaka. i'd like to get a programming job if i can. i have 5 years experience working in sydney with SQL, ASP, PHP, Photoshop etc (web development). but my japanese is still very basic. i've been studying in australia for 6 months already, but i'm not able to have a decent conversation in japanese yet. my alternative fallback job is teaching english, but i'd rather not do that if i can work as a programmer.

what are my chances? should i resign myself to the fact that teaching is the only thing i can do in japan, at least until my japanese skill increases dramatically?

[PAULH]

[mrmachine]

hey paulh, i mean no offense to english teachers in japan by saying it is my second choice. it's just that i don't think i will be great at teaching english due to my character and nature. i'll be less comfortable in front of a class than i will typing codes. but at the same time i'm interested to do it for the experience and to put myself out of my comfort zone and learn something new.

so forget about the IT stuff for a moment, if i am to teach in osaka/wakayama, how tough is it going to be to find work and get up to speed? i don't have any experience teaching and i never went to university. i want to make learning japanese a priority and i have a little savings so i was considering doing full time study and part time teaching or private conversation practice etc.

[PAULH]

[PAULH]

Just in case you were wondering what an average language teacher at NOVA does all day have a look at this fairly (objective) NOVA website

http://www.vocaro.com/trevor/japan/nova/level_up.html


May not be your cup of tea or your first choice of job but with no Japanese ability and skills that Japanese will be able to use this may be one of your only alternatives at least in the beginning. This is not to say IT and tech jobs are not out there, they are just pretty hard to find, thats all.

[Glenski]

[mrmachine]

thanks for the info guys.

i am indeed an australian and i am planning a long-term stay in japan (3x6 months working holiday visa, to start with).

when i land in japan i'll be moving in with my girlfriend somewhere between osaka city and wakayama (she has commitments in wakayama). so the accomodation should be ok and i'll have support from her and her family getting setup in japan.

i've been studying japanese in australia for 6 months part time but it is still a very basic level. i'm not conversational yet and know almost no kanji.

i don't have any university degree. in fact i didn't even finish 10th grade, but i'm happy to leave that part out of my cv and skirt around the truth during interviews. my experience is all self taught plus 5 years solid commercial experience in IT/internet.

i know it is going to be hard to learn japanese and teach english, but given that teaching is practically my only option for an income while in japan (at least initially), what is the best way for me to live/work and study?

i have some japanese friends/contacts that i have met through my girlfriend who have some high up friends in famous japanese companies, and they have said they may be able to get me a job at SCE or canon in tokyo, but only if i can speak japanese.

my girlfriends obligations in wakayama may end 6-9 months after i land, so in a perfect world i could study full time or teach english and study for 9 months, and then score a job in IT through contacts in either tokyo or osaka.

is it absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to find a company that will sponsor me without a BA, for an IT job considering that i have 5 years experience? that being the case, i may need to content myself with 20 hours work a week (plus maybe some private lessons on the side and IT contracts from companies back home) until my working holiday visa runs out, then think about a study or spouse visa. or more likely, moving to europe for another adventure. but i really want to achieve fluency with japanese during my stay and try to find some level of success with a job i enjoy, and not just feel like i am filling in time and not learn any of the language and then be forced out and on to my next adventure.

[Zzonkmiles]

So let me get this straight:

You don't have a BA (or a high school diploma).
You don't speak Japanese.
You want a programming job, and only a programming job.
You will only consider working in one or two cities, one of which is very small.

No offense, but do you realize how unrealistic your plan sounds? There are millions of Japanese people IN JAPAN who CAN SPEAK JAPANESE and know how to program as well. Why would a Japanese company hire YOU instead of a Japanese who can speak the lingua franca? So this means you'll have to find a job at a foreign company in Japan where everything is conducted in English. Simply put, you will NOT find this kind of company in Wakayama. Osaka might be a bit kinder to you in this regard, but your best bet for funding such a company will be in Tokyo, where many foreign companies have their headquarters. But even then, you would be competing with other foreigners already in Japan, most of whom are probably degreed and can probably speak more Japanese than you (J-ability is going to hold you back regardless of your job, I think, unless it's an eikaiwa position). And then a WHV is only good for a year and a half or so and can only be renewed once. You say you already have five years of IT experience. That's great, but let it be known that you are ineligible for a WHV after age 30. Oh, and a WHV only allows you to work part-time (hence the name working HOLIDAY visa), so you're NOT going to be able to support yourself on that income.

So then you have teaching English at an eikaiwa. You need to be able to prove that you've had at least 12 years of verifiable English-only education. You said you didn't finish high school. Are you looking for a reputable school to hire you? One with a good salary, lots of vacations, and few working hours? On a **WHV** as a **part-time worker**?? Meanwhile, there are thousands of eikaiwa teachers already in Japan, most of whom already have degrees, valid work visas, and teaching experience who are looking for the exact same jobs. Exactly what kind of teaching job do you expect to find? Ummm...

Again, no offense, but I don't understand why people want to come to this country (or any other foreign country) and expect to be able to do the exact same job they were doing back home even though they don't have the skills necessary (i.e., LANGUAGE ABILITY) to do so or even the qualifications that would give them a competitive edge (not to mention a proper visa). And then they set all these parameters that further restrict themselves, such as location and type of employment. And then they expect to have no difficulty with going down this road? I do agree that people should have a right to choose where they want to work and what kind of job they wish to have, but in the end, if you aren't flexible and don't have so much to offer in terms of making yourself competitive, be prepared for the cold hand of reality to slap you in the face...again and again and again.

[mrmachine]

settle down, buddy.

i'm not coming to japan expecting a handout. i know there is no chance in hell that i will get a job even close to as good as my job in sydney.

i don't have a degree, but i have real-world experience in my field, and unfortunately it's just not practical to go back to university for 4 years to get a degree that is ONLY useful for me in getting a job in japan where i will live temporarily that is certainly not as good as my current job.

i don't want ONLY a programming job, i said this is my ideal. there are some aspects that make me want to teach english, and there are other reasons that make me want a REAL job in japan (any REAL job -- programming just happens to be my field).

my choice of where to live in work is being dictated by my significant other's existing commitments in that area. if it was just me on my own little adventure, i'd go wherever i could find an enjoyable job.

my goal is not to speak english all day teaching or programming for a foreign company. i want to improve my japanese to a level where i will be able to get a job with a japanese company where my english and japanese skills will be required. this is why i have asked and talked about teaching english for a while, learning japanese, then finding a real job in a japanese company and NOT limited to osaka/wakayama after my girlfriend's obligations in that area have lessened.

and finally, who are you to me, to criticise and judge me? you only know the circumstances i have shared with you here, and you have chosen to ignore some of them and berate me as though i want ONLY a programming job in rural japan (wakayama) purely as a flight of fantasy, which is far from the goals i have described. i don't need to justify my worth, ideals or plans to you.

if you have no positive advice to help me succeed in teaching while i learn japanese in the hope that i can find non-teaching work later on down the track, then why bother to speak at all?

[PAULH]

[PAULH]

[mrmachine]

thanks paulh.

i don't expect to become fluent in 18 months while working full time. and i certainly don't plan to lie about having a degree or skills that i don't have to obtain work or a visa. i know that learning japanese takes time, especially since i have been studying forf 6 months and am still at such a basic level.

that being the case, one option i was considering was studying full time (20 hours class time plus out of class study) plus a little teaching work on the side and contracts back home to help my savings last a little longer. i don't expect to become fully fluent before my WHV runs out, and i do want to study properly and learn kanji, not just conversation.

i'll be honest on my CV, i just won't make it obvious that i left high school before finishing 10th grade. i am confident in my experience and skills to perform the jobs in IT that i might go after, so education and confidence in my ability is not an issue for me, but i know that certification is an issue for the japanese employers who may hire me.

i'm also aware of the 20 hour 18 month limitation on the WHV, and that i'll need to marry, find a work visa sponsor, or leave after that time (or maybe study visa?), if i want to stay in japan after the WHV expires.

i'm just trying to formulate my best plan of attack to survive initially, enjoy my stay, build up my japanese skill as much as possible, and maybe find non-teaching work down the track in IT or even another field that requires japanese and english, assuming i have managed to learn enough japanese.

[Zzonkmiles]

Paul,

Thanks for the clarification and the sources of the correct information. Apologies to the OP for giving the misinformation.

[PAULH]

The applicant must fulfill the following conditions. However, these conditions shall not apply in cases where the applicant plans to engage in work involving proxy duties in procedures relating to international arbitration cases as designated in Article 58-2 of the Foreign Lawyer's Law (Law No. 66 of 1986).
1. When planning to engage in work requiring knowledge in the humanities, the applicant must have acquired the relevant knowledge by graduating from college majoring in a subject relevant to the knowledge required for performing the work concerned, or by receiving an equivalent or higher level of education, or by accumulating at least 10 years of practical experience in the planned work (including the period of time spent majoring in a subject related to the required knowledge at college, "Koto senmongakko", senior high school, the latter half of unified secondary school, or during specialized course of study at an advanced vocational school ("Senshugakko")).
2. When planning to engage in work requiring specific ways of thought or sensitivity based on experience with foreign culture, the applicant must fulfill the following conditions:

The applicant is to engage in translation, interpretation, language instruction, public relations, advertising, overseas transactions, fashion or interior design, product development, or other similar work.

The applicant must have at least 3 years of experience in work relating to the relevant job. However, this does not apply if the applicant has graduated from college and is planning to engage in work involving translation, interpreting, or language instruction.

3. The applicant should receive no less salary than a Japanese national would receive for comparable work.

[canuck]