Job Discussion Forums

Atlas · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 662 Location: By-the-Sea PRC

I smell smoke. I work at a language mill which has actually been a satisfying place to teach (notwithsatnding contradictory suggestions like "students want more interactivity / lecturing in English Corner, and that kind of student feedback BS).

Well my contract states clearly after my 3 month probation period I get a scheduled, set increase in salary. Other teachers have done it with no problem, but after my meeting today the assistant mgr guy hinted it might be based on evaluation (and other nonspecific criteria), and put off "I think another month", which would basically breech the contract. (and let me tell you, evaluation is NOT related to performance, it's related to the management's incentive to cut spending!). Due to two other incidences in the past, that directly were solved by my own cash, this would be strike three.

Anyway I'm of the mind, if they start pulling threads from my very simple, clear contract, I would like to move on. At my age I don't like to fck around.
Because I'm a pretty good teacher, and there are other ones here too, and the "traditional hierarchical" management likes to denounce us to make us feel insecure, and more pliable for manipulation. But it doesn't really work with me, because I know my true market value and my quality experience and if they don't make me happy I'll just move on. (Actually this peeves me enough to consider moving on anyway; don't talk to me as if you're doing me any favors! You're getting rich off me! Screw you stupid, I'm not some Chinese prole you can push around). The part time lifestyle is much more self-empowered than full time, when they think they own you.

So no problem yet, but I smell a little smoke, and my big question, yes, I'm finally getting to it, is THIS:

If you leave a school for breaching their own contract, obviously they would be reluctant to give you that letter of release/recommendation which the visa office requires when it comes time to renew. What can the lonely traveler do without that letter? Is there some safe alternative? Or some way to force them to give you the letter?

Maybe in my next contract I will stipulate that if they breach the contract they must still provide the letter--but I really doubt that would hold up in reality.

If they breach my contract I will state names and details to warn all you lovely people.

Cheers!

Sinobear · Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269 Location: Purgatory

I don't know about forcing them to provide the letter; however, here's an idea:
If you're going to 'release yourself', make two copies of your letter stating clearly your intention to quit, when and why (in English and Chinese).
Get your manager to sign your copy - say it's for acknowledgement or whatever.
If they refuse to provide the release letter, or their letter doesn't jive with the circumstances, you will have your signed letter (in both languages) as proof that a) you are no longer under contractual obligations to that school, and b) that they're lying schmucks.

Cheers!

Spiderman Too · Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:03 am Post subject:

If you have the finances and time to be able to briefly leave China, and Hong Kong is probably the best place to go, then a release letter is not necessary.

Depart to Hong Kong, hand in your Foreigner Residence Permit at airport immigration, use a visa agent to obtain a new 30-day 'L' visa or, better still, a 6 month 'F' visa, and then return to China and, hopefully, start your new job.

If you don't want to leave China after quitting your current job, then a release letter is, officially, required but, depending on what connections your new employer has, there are ways around it.

The most recent information I have read about this, on this forum, was from Talkdoc who implied that he left his job up in the cold north-east and secured a new position without a release letter.

Another poster reported that he had a release letter but failed to have his Foreigner Residence Permit 'stamped' in a province up north and the Beijing authorities insisted that his F.R.P. be sent to his former province for 'stamping' before they would process an amendment to the F.R.P. (to reflect his new job and residence).

I met one teacher who had to take 'emergency leave' from his new job, fly from one end of China to the other and go 'cap in hand' to his old employer literally begging for a release letter because the authorities in his 'new' province wouldn't budge on the issue of him being released from his original contract.

If it were me, I'd go down to Hong Kong and return - 100% definitely, absolutely, certainly assured of getting a new F.R.P. on returning to China.

ShapeSphere · Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 386

Spiderman Too,

Could I just clarify for myself and perhaps others regards the Hong Kong choice.

Is it really that easy in HK?

Professor Moriarty · Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 39 Location: The Overlook

'Spiderman Too' is right. You can, if you pay a premium, even have the visa on the very same day. This is why I am always sceptical about claims made on the Mainland about visas taking weeks, perhaps even months, to arrange. Something is clearly amiss if one is told this (especially as some of them claim to possess the magical all-powerful 'guanxi'. Try cash through the appropriate legal channels, it tends to work better.)

You will have to fork out a few Bob, but remember, there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over (as noted by Frank Zappa).

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Spideman is just wrong about visa types; you can get a tourist visa for up to one year as easily as a businessman's visa. There is no need to pretend to be a businessman (which legally requires bona fide proof of your status by dint of name cards or such like, though in HK they never ask for them).
You can get tourist visa for any length, multiple-entry or single-entry. Tourist visas are, if anything, cheaper, or the same price.

It would, however, be wise to check with fellow countrypeople who have recently done this. Apparently, HK is no longer the best resort for long-term visas; they seem to have been denied to Americans, or so one hears.

YankeeDoodleDandy · Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:35 pm Post subject: Hong Kong Visa

In July of 2003, I had to go to Hong Kong to get my visa renewed, as I had already been to Shanghai once and the school was waiting to receive permission from the PSB to hire FTs.Try A B and J Co. Ltd.Room 1202 Koon Fook Centre # Knutsford TeraceTsim Shatsui Kowloon, Hong Kong Take the number 21 bus to Nathan Road. It appears to be in the heart of the city. Daniel was very helpful to me and it cost about 1100 RMB or 1177 HK dollars. There phone number is 2638 2673. It took a day and a half. I received a business visa for one year. Check out the latest Lonely Planet for prices and look around. Don't buy a suit while you are there. The address is 9 Knutsford Terrace

Atlas · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 662 Location: By-the-Sea PRC

Thanks guys, feel better already.

It really cheeses me. I really work hard, and to be treated like I'm not doing a good job, just to screw me out of my contracted money.... well, I won't stick around for this particular Punch and Judy show. I'll take my value somewhere that gives me the respect I deserve. Oh yes, I don't believe the lies! I know my value!

Business in China: What you gain in cheap labor you lose in efficiency and corruption and incompetence masked behind authority that can't bear scrutiny or accounting. And it's rude of you to ask. I'm sorry, that's not culture. That's corruption and I don't respect it.

What you do to others you do to yourself. So go right ahead and cheat the foreigner as much as you want. It's your future, not mine. I can go home to civilization! I'm not your stupid prole!

Step one, consider sticking to contracts. As long as the status quo is in place, I would never believe a contract signed in Chinese.
Call me a racist all you want. It's my money and I won't throw it away on a dysfunctional risky bubble economy that calls corruption "culture" and thinks that excuses it from an accounting.

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

Spiderman Too · Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:37 pm Post subject:

ShapeSphere

no_exit · Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 565 Location: Kunming

tofuman · Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 937

I'm truly pained to discover that "talkdoc", the wise, the patient, the understanding voice of calm, the one to whom I looked for guidance and modelling, in short-- my mentor, did a midnight run because he couldn't hack it in a cold and dirty city.

If a man like him can be broken, what hope is there for me?

brasilstu · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 271 Location: China

Atlas, I did this recently.

Do you have a penalty breach clause in your contract? If you signed the standard Chinese contract or a re-write of it (most people do) then you should have a 500 dollar penalty breech.

So then it wentlike this...

Me: I don't like here I'm leaving.
School. You can't leave, the contact...
Me: ...says if i pay 500 bucks I can leave
School: OK, so you work a month or till we find a new teacher then pay 500 dollars then you can leave
Me: No, if I'm paying the breach penalty I'm going now, Bye (getting up from chair)
School: Er...er....
Me: Or can we come to an arrangement?

Also, I got a release letter but forget to stamp out with the PSB with when i left my old city, I had to send me docs back by post after i arrived to get them stamped

I also lost my release letter and had to get a new one. Don't let anyone tell you you dont need one (with the exception of the HK routine describes above)

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

Magoo · Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 651 Location: Wuhan, China

I asked my friend in the PSB (name-drop. CLANG!) about this, as FTs are her department. The school is obliged to give you a letter of release, WHETHER YOU BREAK THE CONTRACT OR NOT. The letter is not a reference, merely proof that you are no longer employed by the school, pure and simple. If the school refuses, go to the PSB.

Disclaimer: I realise that this is simplistic in the extreme and that THIS IS CHINA, but you could try them first.