Job Discussion Forums

[amandabarrick]

In my long and deliberate quest for a job in China, I have gained a reservior of knowledge on the subject. I have read more contracts, introductions to schools, and job information than I care to admit. I have seen countless postings on many different sites, most of which list the salary that the school is offering. What I did not know was that these salaries were not etched in stone. I assumed, wrongly, that the salary the school listed was the best offer they could make. However, after speaking directly with a few of these schools, I was asked on occasion what they thought my salary should be? I was shocked! I wasn't sure what to say. Could my salary be higher than what they were advertising? For the sake of experimentation, when asked about the salary I did, on occasion, ask for 1000 RMB or even 2000 RMB higher than the salary they offered on the posting i saw. Then, in the spirit of negotiating and bargaining, they obviously said that figure was too high, yet the amount that we ended up agreeing upon was always higher than the salary listed on job posting, the salary I thought I was going to get. Am I really so new at this negotiating thing? Is this what all teachers do? Is this the norm?
AB
"The cat doesn't even have thumbs Focker!"

[Sinobear]

When buying something (at a non-governmental store): start at a third of the asking price and work your way up to what you'd be comfortable paying.
When negotiating salary: factor in all tangible and intangible benefits. Decide on how much the position is worth to you (salary-wise). Add 20% to that figure and bargain down to what you'd be comfortable accepting but never less.

The topic of salaries and salary caps is always interesting.



Cheers!

[tofuman]

Lies are the stock in trade of many Chinese. You may be told that the school can't pay you more for such and such a reason. Lie.

Don't negotiate below what you will be happy with. Be good to yourself. You deserve it. Tell them what you want and if they don't meet it, walk. But be prepared to keep walking. Some of these people would rather not do business with you at all, if it is not on their terms.

Remember, deep down inside, the person you are talking with despises you. He will feel a personal loss of face if he does not cheat you.

Two books that all FTs should read are Eichmann in Jerusalem by Hannah Arndt and Solzhenitsyn's First Circle.

I was recently offered a job by an acquaintance. He quoted me a salary that I scoffed at. I paternalistically told him that he would never get a FT at that price. He immediately upped the salary by as much as sixty per cent. I let it drop because, at that time, I wasn't interested at any price.

These people are not our friends.

[Wearjak]

[Guest]

In the 17 months I have been at this School, I have had nothing but a fair deal.

I originally signed a 10 month contract at 2,500 rmb per month (which the other two teachers were on at the time). As I was new, and only teaching 10 hours per week, I thought this was a reasonable amount.

Two months into the 10 month contract, a new teacher arrived at School and word quickly got out that he was on 3,500 per month. I presumed he was qualified (which I was not) so I did not worry about it and I was too busy with the "O" at the time to care. However, one of the other teachers kicked up about it, and all of us received 3,500 per month from that time on (despite my contract for 2,500).

When School re-commenced in September 2004, I did not receive and increase and was not concerned about it as I think 3,500 is quite good for 10 hours per week.

I did hear that two of the new teachers were on 4,000, but again it did not bother me.

I was told a couple of weeks ago that my salary is going to be increased to 4,000 rmb per month from the 15th February, so, again, it is in the middle of my contract. They only have to pay me 3,500 until the end of June.

Three teachers are leaving here next weekend (they only stayed one Semester).

Conclusion - "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"

[tofuman]

Rhonda,

That's great that you have had a good experience at your school. I really have not. Let me tell you how my troubles started. Last Christmas, I was given a holiday and told to enjoy myself. I went to a local tourist spot for a trip of a few hours. The administration had a fit. They found out who helped me with my travel arrangements and criticized them. They contacted several faculty members and told them to go out and look for me.

When I returned, I was told that I would have to give a final exam to a class of students that I had taken over for another teacher. I had been previously told that this would not be the case. This appeared as a clear punishment for taking an "unauthorized" trip. With just a few days to prepare a final for a class that I had only briefly taught, I put it together and half the class failed. I was told that this was unacceptable. Expecting this, the test I gave was open book based on material that the other teacher supposedly taught them. I pointed out that the material had nothing to do with what I was teaching, that they should have learned it from the other teacher.

I had out-foxed them.

But things were never the same after that.

Conclusion: A background in dealing with the criminally insane is an asset in China.

[Talkdoc]

Tofuman - Have you been able to determine what it was about this "unauthorized trip" (the details of which are unclear) that threatened and angered your employers so? Why is it they would object to any several hour trip you had taken on a day you were given as a holiday?

What's going on?

Doc

[lagerlout2006]

Even when SARS was raging we could travel locally without telling anyone. I really wonder about some of these schools. To my credit a place like this would fire me within days.

[tofuman]

Well, doc,

Some people derive their value as a human being from being able to control other people. Having a foreigner under their control is a trememdous boon.

Another issue, a lie I believe, had to do with my "security." When I first arrived here, I was placed under virtual house arrest in my hotel for nearly a month while my papers were secured and my lodging finished.

I later discovered that it was their own safety that they were concerned about. If anything happened to me, they would be held accountable. Understandably, the safest course would be to severely restrict my movement, thereby lessening my chances of accident or injury.

Last year during the New Year holiday, I was not allowed to travel anywhere. Again, I was more or less confined to my immediate surroundings. I did take an approved day trip with a "colleague" from the English department. Oh, and a trip to a local museum with another teacher's daughter and friends. I agreed, at that time to stay around if I was paid my usual salary during the break. The school agreed.

Believe it or not, I signed on for another year. This contract had a clause in it that did allow me to travel, at my own risk, if the school had not arranged the trip.

Fairly recently, I discovered that the school had been reneging on providing a working internet connection. I had mistakenly believed that the problem was regional rather than just my school that had a bad connection. I was informed, by mistake, that my connection did not work because the school did not want to spend the money for a good connection. That inspired me to turn in my resignation unless the school paid the $1,000 fee for violating the contract and/ or provided me with a working connection.

The administration then tried to deceive their way out by pointing to some ambiguous wording in the contract. I said it did not matter. I had to have a reliable internet connection to take care of business in the USA. I would give them 10 days to get a working connection or I was leaving...period.

Now I have a connection, but they still deny wrongdoing. The penalty clause is a joke. I have thought about going to the provincial FAO but have not yet taken that step. I have another agenda that supersedes this nonsense.

Again, the administration let a crisis develop before doing anything about it. That's their usual approach with things that they don't deem important. Of course, this reflects the administration's attitude toward the FTs. Deliberate indifference is what it would be called in the USA. It's a toxic organization made so by dysfunctional employees.

I'm sure I have contributed to the current climate by some other issues for which I might be blamed; I didn't come here, however, to be subject to a tin god.

[Talkdoc]

[tofuman]

I guess I'm a lightweight, Doc.

[Roger]

It is tiring to read again and again how we can negotiate a far better deal than is generally offered us. For every success story publicly bragged about in this forum I can find at least one, pssibly two cases of desperadoes who accepted ANY job just to get going.

ANd, I don't live in the border lands of Inner Mongolia; in fact, I live in the province with the most jobs for foreign nationals, and very high salary level.

Anyway, dear Marion, it's a genuine consolation to read that your pay has finally been ratcheted up to where it should have been from the start!
Congratulations to you for your stamina and devotion!