Job Discussion Forums

[Bill Shagley]

I think it is time to leave China. This is not because of SARS but because of the same problems that have existed for a long time but have not changed in any way.
The key problem with China is dishonesty. It permeates all levels of society. The Chinese government had to count SARS patients by hand in Beijing before they could get an accurate figure. On a much lower level we see it in the way schools lie to parents about the qualifications of their foreign teachers. How many non-graduates are teaching in this country? This makes normal living impossible. If you go to a hospital, can you trust in either the doctors' competence or in the medicine you are given? How many times have you been in a bar and asked for a drink, only to be told that they only have the expensive option?
There is also an intellectual dishonesty that makes real education impossible. This has infected international exams such as IELTS. I know more than one monoglot who waltzed through that exam. As a foreign teacher, you will usually not be taken seriously in your grading. Why do so many of us put up with it? Why do we allow our work to be degraded?
This country does not conform to international standars of honesty but must we actively help in the side-stepping of those standards?
The west has been blinded by its own greed and its desire to access the Chinese market. But they need us more than we need them. Half of their exports come from foreign run operations and the figure is similar for the creation of new jobs. Why then do we play ball with them? China's much vaunted modernization means nothing unless it includes a modernization of standards and practices. I see foreign business turning a blind eye to many unacceptable practices all the time. I see foreign businessmen bribing local officials all the time. Why is this? If they need our investment so badly, why are we kow-towing to them? It has gotten to the stage now where foreign business people are punished for not playing ball. Consider the case of the Irish guy in Shenyang who refused to help students sidestep Irish visa laws and had his passport held by the local authorities. He was only allowed to return home after consular intervention.
From a teacher's perspective this is not good. We will not improve our lot because we are not really considered to be teachers. Most schools are only looking for white faces. Most parents pay huge sums of money for schools to provide them with real teachers but get ripped off by those schools. The schools cannily hire losers and dropouts, pay them next to nothing and then simply replenish their staff from the ever expanding supply of unqualified morons who are willing to "do China, man".
Why do we accept this? Shouldn't we walk away and let them wallow in their own corruption? Isn't it time to tell China to grow up? China will only change unless we give it no alternative. It will not evolve voluntarily.

[pratyeka]

You're having a BCD (bad China day).

[J.D.]

I am reminded of an old cartoon series "George of the Jungle" in which there were two statements worthy of repeating here:

"Watch out for that tree." "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it Fred." Maybe I have the cartoon wrong or even the quotes, I do not really know. I am not even certain why I am compelled to include them at this point.

I have had a few bad hair days and felt even worse than you Bill. But fortunately, I got a good night's sleep and awoke in the morning still in China, busting my *** to "contribute to society" and through my minute contribution try to help just one person to a better existence while saying "But for the grace of God, there go I." YEAH Man! Glad I was not born in China. Glad I can leave whenever I want. Really glad I decided to stay!

[chinasyndrome]

[quote="J.D."]

[hubei_canuk]

Lying.
Cheating.
Dishonesty.
Corruption.
Inhumane.
................
Hate to break it to you innocent folks, but China is a COMMUNIST Country.
Communism is a form of TOTALITARIAN DICATORSHIP.
All TOTALITARIAN DICTATORSHIPS are lying , cheating dishonest, corrupt and inhumane.
Totalitarian means there is NO OTHER Model of behaviour.
God and Plato and Aristotle and Aesop and Hans Christian Anderson were all taken out in the back road and shot.
The people have no other model no other method of behaviour.
It's commie trickledown.
..............
So in that view i guess you complaining people are anti-commie revolutionaries.
Shhhh............. I won't tell.
Mom's the word.
Really, foreign teachers seem very dangerous importing their culture and ideas. In times of crisis please be careful people. Remember , when the allies invaded, the first thing Hitler did was to shoot all the translators.!!
++++++++++++++++
PS. The most important qualification to be a teacher is to be a 20 year old beautiful White western woman with golden hair. As a sometimes recruiter, I have duly noted this requirement in my notebooks many times.
So by definition that precludes a university degree as not two many 20 year olds have a degree.
========================
Come on people, you knew that jacket was made by Army run prison labour camps in Qinghai before you bought it.
...

[J.D.]

This may just be the most fun post in here in a loooonnngggg time!!!!!

[Anne-Marie Gregory]

Please don't shoot me down (too much) but a lot of the complaints about Communism are not criticisms of communism per se, but of certain governments. Discuss.

[J.D.]

Open a new thread if you want to discuss communism and all of its wonderful atributes.

[Seth]

I've heard the same things about Korea, Taiwan and Thailand, but they aren't communist countries. I'm sure Cubans are wonderful people to be around, however, although as an American I can't go there. I don't think it's communism, at least not totally. It's something deeper. I'm not going to try to figure it out, though. Putting up with nonsense in China is just that: putting up with it.

I think China will straighten out a bit once their markets have to fully compete with foreign markets, where some daddy's boy who guanxi'ed his way into a top position will get slaughtered by well trained and educated multinational CEOs.

[Kapt. Krunch]

It's a real eye-opener thats for sure. All the things that you thought you'll never see in this life...you see. It's like everyday is "backwards day". Welcome to the land where circular logic is king.

[hubei_canuk]

Deep in the Heart of Hello Kitty
-----------------------------------------
"Open a new thread if you want to discuss communism and all of its wonderful atributes." -J.D.
====================================
This thread is about nonsense in China is therefore about Communism.
The big problem that expats have is in undersanding that their left and right eyes are looking at the same thing.
..
What did people all think it was? Did they think the chinese were naturally insane?. Did they think they had this quaint ALIEN culture that nobody could ever understand it and it made them permanently the victims of Salvador Dali?
..
If they did, in fact these are ethnically biased attitudes.

Chinese people are human beings like every one else and their behaviour is explainable by natural social laws. They are the products of a totally controlled environment.

No, not every detail is controlled at the low level but it is something like a jello mould. Supppose the jello is in the shape of "Hello Kitty".
The general mould is set, so it doesn't matter where the individual wriggles around in the jello, the individual is still going to be part of the "Hello Kitty Jello".
..
I hope that's clear.
..
So i'm saying there's no need to look about for necromancer explanations. It's rigt there in front of your eyes. If you didn't have your passport to get out of china-the-jail free you'd go crazy and corrupt as well (if you haven't already).
..
China is communism .
Communism is china.
Haven't you see the Patriotic TV ads?
..
"Women de DANG!
Women de Zhong Guo!
Women de Zhong Guo ren!"
..
PARTY- China-Chinese People!
It's all one.
..
It's only the foreigners who can't see it together and how it works.

[chinasyndrome]

[quote="Kapt. Krunch"]

[arioch36]

Anne, Canuck isn't capable of discussions.

Actually, if you look at the problems of China (No one gave them a Marshall plan after the war) compare them to other countries, I have no problems with the government here....except for the things I complain about everyday, which are a lot (I like to complain).

Americans discussing American government, " They are all crooks"
Americans discussing Chinese government, "They are all liars"

I don't believe either is true

[Minhang Oz]

Ann
We had a "commie" thread here not long ago, but Canuk refused to return fire, so its dropped way down the hit parade. He has learned from history [Mao et al] that when outgunned and outnumbered, its best to keep moving. Seriously HC, during the few weeks I've been on this forum ,you've had few kind words for China aside from Lonely Planet Heaven, Yangshuo. OK, its a nice getaway once in a while, and the scenery is other-worldly, but are you really putting up with the hell you describe PRC as just for that? One theory is you were planted here by the CIA in the '50 s [Kindly Canadians are popular in China - witness Da Shan's success!], but they forgot about you, and you've been teaching ever since trying to raise the airfare home. So give us the real story. In the meantime, to help you in the airfare department, have you thought about publishing your collected thoughts from these pages? You can retrieve everything with one press of a button. I'd certainly buy a copy. I see the Iraqi Information Minister [what tanks?] is getting offers to do TV shows, so there's certainly a precedent.

[POTUS]

Seems mehung Oz attacks all comers. Try some soothing tea to calm down. Or maybe you are the forum police.