Job Discussion Forums

[Atlas]

I can't even begin to comment, except to say this is the first scientific
research report that made me laugh out loud.

http://efl.htmlplanet.com/qiang_wolff.htm

(particularly the Complaints of Foreign Teachers section)

If this is what passes for science around here--well I'm reminded
of Asimov's Lord Dorwin in the first Foundation novel. (You know, the guy
who practiced "archaeology" by reading and opining, without condescending to actually visit the field).

[Ludwig]

Old Wolfy used to post here.

[Captain Yossarian]

This article has been doing the rounds for as long as I can remember. Does anyone know it was first published?

[Atlas]

Wolf always struck me as a reasonable person, if it is the same guy. I tend to think he had little say in the final paper that is so heavily seasoned with blatant confirmation bias.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

la ji!

This so-called "scientific" report is slanted, biased, poorly written and in many instances lacking many citations of sources of information.

This "report" has numerous examples of defending China's short-comings, while is full of critisisms directed at foreign teachers.

There is nothing scientific about a report littered with opinions.

It's nothing more than pure, unadulterated crap.

[Sinobear]

Go to www.usingenglish.com - you can read more of his articles there.

[Ludwig]

'GwoW', tell us what you really think why don't you! How about a more balanced critique? Obviously he has an angle, but no more so than reporters of the NYT, let alone the Chinese 'journalists'.

I can understand why some will get angry from such an article; no one likes to have their illusions shattered. It will come as a surprise to many, I am sure, to learn that Mainland professors do not earn less than them, but in fact often command many tens of thousands a month in addition to being paid 13 times a year (and, often, free overseas education for their (one) child).

Mind you, at least people will still be able to say that they 'earn more than local teachers'.

[Roger]

I haven't visited that website, but I noticed the name "Martin" being bandied around; is it Martin Wolff again?
He posted a rehash of an earlier article on the China Daily too.

Others pointed out that his data had been gathered unprofessionally; be that as it may, I found fault with some of his conclusions.
One was that the Chinese don't need to study English to interact with the world; the world is coming to China to do business, and it would behoove foreign businesspeople well if they mastered Mandarin when dealing with their Chinese counterparts...

Another broadside was fired at "unqualified" foreign teachers; no word was wasted on the fact that whatever your professionalism, it's Chinese superiors that disenfranchise each and every one of us. We are figureheads, some with, some without, Masters'!

[wowzers]

Ludwig,
This comes as no surprise. In fact, most Chinese educators of all levels take home much more than their official salaries. Most use their positions as a means to engage in activities ranging from accepting bribes to tutoring. Some are as slick and as professional as top notch Western salespeople and entrepreneurs. They sell an assortment of goods and services at high commision rates to a captive and motivated audience, the parents.

[Atlas]

I drank a whole bottle of Chinese Dionysius wine with a broken cork and I'm in a cynical mood (last time same thing happened, so no more of that swill for me). Here's what I've got: (Kids, don't drink and post).

China government can coddle the chinese people and feed them any line of BS that will keep them happy, but if the government is interested in the truth then it is well aware that the world doesnt give a flying rat's as$ about Chinese culture, but is grooming this copious population to be cheap labor and mass consumers. It's a goal that serves China and the WTO so they are in bed. It's only about money, and if China wants to believe the world is finally coming to admire their backstabbing "culture" then it doesn't know the 4 billion "Laowai" as well as it think it does.

The world isn't going to bother learning mandarin so China should learn English if it wants to conduct business. It's not that it's too complex to understand. It's that people just don't care enough to try it.

As for this "scientific" crap and the rest of the propaganda machine, it's sh.t and the western people are not as dumb as China needs us to be. See, we have our information, our educations, and they were not groomed by the powers that be but by the actual application of the idea "each according to his abilities". We got Marx. We got that he was a science fiction writer. We also decided not to trust human nature and made a society that could cope with coattail riders and junk political philosophy.

Anyway, this is junk science, the worst kind of lie, a lie that camouflages itself in scientific values, ignoring actual scientific rigor. Well that may fool these China-educated scientists but it will never stand actual scientific scrutiny from actual scientists in the actual global scientific community, and guess what, real scientists are not so gullible to believe any old thing and real science does not spring from conclusions but from a little thing called the experimental method, sufficiently operationalized hypotheses, empirical controls, observation and replication. Not from glib conclusions written with a thesaurus. For example, where is the method in interviewing? Was it consistently applied or just done at the "observer's" beck and whim? This is NOT SCIENCE. This, like Michael Moore's movie, is an editorial with pretensions.

[Alex Shulgin]

[tofuman]

I read the article and thought it rather bland; however, it birthed Atlas' wine-sponsored but truth laden insightfulness, which makes the article worth the time to read it.