Job Discussion Forums

[parvati_overdrive]

I am curious if the experience I had in Korea is similar to those in China in regard to classroom interactions, etc...

The kids grades 8-12 were my most difficult students. They were disinterested in learning English (esp on Saturdays!) in general. Were very self concious about speaking out for fear of embarrassment of their peers (and opposite sex!). It was in short, like pulling teeth.

Are the kids in China different in say a public or private school? Do the differ rural/urban, rich or poor? Is there any similarity outside the obvious?

You'd think this group would have the most energy, I much prefered any group even kids or the stodgy old Korean businessmen.

Feedback on age group appreciated

[limits601]

I currently teach rich 11 to 14 yr old kids. 36 in a class and i say 30 of them couldnt care less about having an english teacher. I may have only 6 tops that want to learn from me, the rest will yell, scream, throw stuff, fight and read there chinese books. Now if there is a chinese teacher present in the class, a totall different story. There all scared to death of them and they listen to me. So my advice is have a teacher present in you class.

This is my own experience. Im sure many of your have different experience and different advice.

[MES]

Yep, teaching a foreign language to big classes of mostly rowdy, disrespectful, couldn't-care-less teenagers is bloody hard work, as I discovered in Korea and now China. I (and most of my teaching friends here) no longer have the patience to do it. In my experience the final year of high school is about the only time teenagers show any interest in English. Give me a class of kindy kids or adults ANY day!

[kev7161]

I teach 5 Senior One classes, 3 Senior Two classes, and 2 Senior Three classes.

Most Senior 3 students do okay (most, maybe 80%). I would say about 50% of my Senior Twos seem to really be interested in English (with the high scores to match) and then roughly 30% of my Senior One kids (except one of my Senior Ones - - they easily could challenge many of my Senior Threes with their English skills!). The rest of the kids are really and truly driving me crazy. Private schools (where I teach) are worse than public schools, or so I've been told.

[limits601]

Hmm

i see a pattern

[Roger]

I too have to comment that it is not going to be a piece of cake. There are various reasons that conspire to make your lessons a permanent headache.
First thing: cramming. There is no focus on individual learners but on class work. I call it the "communitarian" style - the techer is a role-model to be emulated by students. Students do things together - i.e. speaking in chorus rather than individually. This most definitely thwarts their individual needs for expressing themselves. Classes routinely number 60 or more; if you are lucky you will get a class of 50 or 45 students.

Second thing:Who likes to study anything, in particular a second or foreign language? I remember my own schooling, and thus I can sympathise with my learners. However, the CHinese are totallydevoid of any idealism and are driven by pure economic motivation to study, especially English. It normally is parents that push their kids to take English. It has become a de facto compulsory subject, but the ongoing propaganda has it that "every Chinese can speak good English", and that has a rather mind-boggling effect: every parent is convinced that his or her child has the mental capacity to become a perfectly bilingual person...

Third reason: The kids you see today are from an entirely different mould than their parents were! Daddy might have held down a job paying RMB 50 a month 20 years ago; now he probably is making 2000 or 5000... The old egalitarian social life is gone, and in its place is an ellbow-conscious, self-centered, upwardly-mobile society that pays lip service to communist ideals and practises the crassest consumerism and materialism. Add to this the fact that the one-child policy that kicked in just 20 years ago is bearing unwanted fruits: kids get one hell pampered these days! Moneybuys just about everything. THere is only one cxhild to the average family, so this single kid gets the undivided attention and material benefits that hitherto had to be spread over several children.

Lastly, I keep repeating that the evil cult revolution they had here in the 60s and 70s is still having effects. To begin with, there is little genuine respect for teachers. You can gauge this problem when you teach at a normal school: the majority of students there won't want to become teachers at all... in spite of obediently mouthing the official doctrine that "I love my country, my school and my teachers". THey hate it.
And they sometimes hate foreign teachers. Blame their xenophobic brainwash that has been strengtrhened in the wake of the June 1989 massacres.

But let me add a more positive note: I have had some truly responsive and responsible students and entire classes. My best memories actually go back to schools in smaller cities outside of Guangzhou, runner-up places. Also in some private schools I met wonderful, dedicated and truly friendly young learners. I would also add that girls in general make for much more obedient students than boys do. Boys are likely to throw tantrums or to act crazy; girls just can't afford to.

[parvati_overdrive]

thanks to all - great post roger (!). i was just hoping i could expand my search, does not appear so. as you stated roger -as a teen, learning language isnt 'fun'. my spanish teacher was a fekking moron and i wasbored to tears in hs!

i was more hopeful theyd see an oppty to get into a better university or poly or work with an intl crowd instead of bumpkinvillians.

im clued in to what teaching esl is and isnt. the learning has to be fun and have application. even when i go to a new country and pick up some language its all hands on, contextual and neccessary. as much as it wrankles - im all for broken english. just open your mouth and speak! have fun and not be shy! youve a lifetime to learn the nuances.

teaching little kids can be fun, especially asians -they are fast learners eh? but id go mad to do it day on day.

[laodeng]

Roger, my hat's off to you! That was one of the best analyses of What Went Wrong here, inside the classroom and out, that I have ever read. As an old Marxist, I am particularly appalled by the way that the genuine ideals of the Revolution have been scuttled. To paraphrase Scripture, you cannot worship both Marx and Mammon.

[struelle]

It is becoming clearer to me now just how different the teaching orientations are in Chinese schools compared to what, say, a teacher in training would learn in the West. Like night and day. I'm more or less starting from scratch in the latter case, and have mentally wiped a 'clean slate', or as clean as I can to detach my China teaching experiences and learn how to understand the needs of HS kids in a pluralistic society like Vancouver.

That said, teachers trained in their home countries should also expect some serious adaptations when coming over to China, especially when it comes to the realities in HS classrooms like Roger posted. It won't be a piece of cake.

Still, I think there are some commonalities of HS students that a teacher can understand and draw on for a successful class experience:

- they have lots of creative energy, and, when activated, can excel at language learning tasks
- they can't stand sitting in desks for long periods of time, find ways to get them active. Competitive games are great, use within reason.
- they are growing adolescents facing all kinds of stress, changes, and pressures. Above all, they need to be listened to, cared for, and respected.

One thing I got recently is that it's OK to have reasonable expecations for a class, and not to try and be a 'super teacher' that will change everything in the class. Given all kinds of constraints, there are situations where it won't be possible to have everyone improve their English, the goal in some cases may be to establish respect first.

Steve