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welby



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:20 am    Post subject: TESL/TEFL Reply with quote
I have a masters in teaching and and two years of experience teaching HS math and science. I am moving to Japan in June, and I was considering getting a certificate for teaching English. Any suggestions for which is the most useful? Are online certifications as respected as ones earned with actual classroom training?

Thanks for any advice!
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shmooj



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you yourself feel confident about your ability as a teacher, with your experience and qualifications, I wouldn't recommend spending the time and money getting certification.

However, check out job ads in Japan carefully and see what their requirements are. if you find that many require a certificate you might either a) get one simply for the sake of this or b) consider carefully whether you really want to work for a school that is anal about requiring a cert from someone with your qualifications and experience Wink

certainly, when I was hiring for a small private language school in Japan, you would have fit my bill without the cert. But then that was me...
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welby



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shmooj,
Thanks for the info. Let me ask you one more question, especially since you used to hire for a language school. If you were indeed looking for a certificate, would it matter to you that it was obtained online? The online courses are quick and cheap, and therefore seem like a good insurance policy. I do not have the time or the money for a three week classroom-intensive course, but a few weekends in front of my computer for $265 seems reasonable.

Thanks again!
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
welby wrote:
shmooj,
Thanks for the info. Let me ask you one more question, especially since you used to hire for a language school. If you were indeed looking for a certificate, would it matter to you that it was obtained online? The online courses are quick and cheap, and therefore seem like a good insurance policy. I do not have the time or the money for a three week classroom-intensive course, but a few weekends in front of my computer for $265 seems reasonable.

Thanks again!


Welby can I ask you what you expect to learn about teaching ESL/EFL in a couple of weekends for $300?

You have teaching experience, but very little in teaching ESL which is very different than teaching Maths. Having theoretical knowledge is nice but it many courses are aimed at ESL i..e teaching English to immigrants in English speaking countries, not to students living in their own countries i.e EFL big difference teaching a mixed group of students in Vancouver than a group of Japanese living in Tokyo or Osaka. You will still lack practical EFL teaching experience which is what courses like CELTA offer you.

As a matter of comparison, a fully recognised CELTA course takes 120 hours and may involve 10 hours of practical teaching. When I did my Temple degree I would do weekend courses with a professor and that was just on one small aspect of teaching ESL. I dont expect you will learn very much that will be of help in just a couple of hours in front of a computer, and you get what you pay for IMO. There are a lot of different courses out there, and some knowledge is better than none, but I dont think employers here will 'respect' a computer course more than any other. It wont make a great deal of difference to your application either way having spent $200 on a course.

You may also find that a majority of Japanese employers here are not teachers, but business owners, and dont know one TESL certificate from another. Many just ask for a degree so they can sponsor your visa. Foreign trainers and managers are often not TESOL qualified, (a few are though) but have worked their way up the company. 90% of new teachers arrive here with no TESL qualifications whatsoever.


You would probably be better off just investing in a few good books on teaching TESL ordered off Amazon.com.
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shmooj



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
welby wrote:
shmooj,
Thanks for the info. Let me ask you one more question, especially since you used to hire for a language school. If you were indeed looking for a certificate, would it matter to you that it was obtained online? The online courses are quick and cheap, and therefore seem like a good insurance policy. I do not have the time or the money for a three week classroom-intensive course, but a few weekends in front of my computer for $265 seems reasonable.

Thanks again!

Sure seems reasonable but you do get what you pay for. I hired about ten staff in the four years I did hiring. Of those, all were certified but one had an online certificate. He was undoubtedly the worst teacher I ever employed in terms of skills in the classroom. I had to help him out with a lot of classroom management, materials grading and simple people skills.

So, from my experience, if it was between you with an online cert with no teaching experience and someone with a CELTA or Trinity Cert which includes it (or gen ed/other teaching experience), I would drop you like a vat of molten steel. And, to add to that, seeing as how even our tiny little school in Japan got up to a hundred or so applicants for any one position we advertised, you wouldn't stand much of a chance.

But then, not every school is as discriminating... or as professional to work for... Wink
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welby



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK, I think I got it. Thanks to all who replied. It seems that...

1. My experience will get me far, despite the fact that it is not in teaching English.

2. If I do have trouble gaining employment, then I should consider a CELTA or Trinity certification.

3. In response to PaulH, the only thing I hoped to gain by the course was the ability to put it on my resume. Believe me, I didn't think it would provide me with much practical knowledge. Therefore, I'll skip it, and if I need more for my resume, I'll get a certificate that will actually provide me with some beneficial knowledge.

Thanks again. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
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Sheep-Goats



Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 527
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
--

Last edited by Sheep-Goats on Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sheep-Goats



Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 527
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sheep-Goats wrote:
You will find the course to be fairly helpful. At my first job in China I was on about equal ground with a guy with a PhD and almost twenty years of teaching experience for our first few months and all I had was a CELTA and a BA in English -- he simply was having so much trouble getting his students to understand what he was saying that he couldn't get anything rolling. We co-taught for a few weeks and he picked up most of my tricks quickly due to his experience, and then he had a much easier time of it than I did.

The CELTA or Trinity cert. will likely do nothing for you (since you're already a qualified teacher back at home) in the way of improving salary or opening doors -- at least not in Japan.

Since you've taught math you should probably look into finding work at an international school doing the same. (Meaning you'd be teaching mostly expat kids math using English as the instruction medium.) You'll be in Japan doing the same job as before, basically, for fairly decent pay.

Online certificates are totally worthless and many employers know this. If you get a certificate, get one with teaching practice.
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