Job Discussion Forums

[orangiey]

Hi Guys, Just found this site and hope you can guide, help and share us in this field.
We are a married English couple in our late 30's looking to have a change of life direction and join the field of ESL.
We would like to know the best places to start and what are our chnaces of getting work etc...
We are both educated to voacational level (ie have no batchelors degree) and so know Japan and Korea are out of the question. We are looking to do the i-to-i diploma course, anyone help with experiences and opioins of this course. We are looking to start Feb/March 2006 as my work contract expires and I've deceided that is a springboard to do something else in my life, hence this!
We would primary like to work in Buenos Aires but only speak holiday Spanish, anyone help here? Or we fancy China, I know there is lots here on the forum but will the i-to-i couse be enough as we also have NO expereience!! for any of the above
We look forward to your support and would be delighted to hear from you all.
One other thing, we have 2 adorable cats who are the spanner in the works of our plans and I could not bear to be parted from them if possible so any info here about taking them with us would also be appreciated.

Thanking you all

ORangieY

[Nauczyciel]

Hmm... i-to-i course doesn't seem enough, no degree doesn't help, lack of teaching experience either, and the cats... You can try, but...

I suggest you send your CVs now as if you were willing to start teaching in September this year so that you can see what the shools' response is, but still... What will you write in your CVs?

If you are serious about teaching abroad, fork out some money and take a legitimate EFL course, such as CELTA. You still have some time, so why not try and look for some proper experience and education? If you want to get you need to give first.

[orangiey]

Thanks for the advice

[dyak]

You could,

1. Ditch the cats.

2. Sign up for a CELTA in Buenos Aires.

3. Take loads of cash as back-up.

4. Go to Buenos Aires.

or,

1. Do the CELTA in the UK.

2. Teach in the UK (exploitation) to get some experience.

3. Learn more Spanish.

4. Go to Buenos Aires.

I think there's an Argentina Forum, and there's a Latin America Forum, check 'em out.

I think it's nealy impossible to get the visa for China with no degree but IMHHO, if i never had to teach another Chinese student, it would be too soon.

[anthyp]

You are not qualified to teach in China, sorry. You must have a BA or relevant (teaching) experience.

That doesn't mean you couldn't find work here, there are certainly schools unscrupulous enough to hire anybody. If you posted your CV you might be able to get a few bites. But think about what kind of school would be willing to hire somebody illegally. Not the kind of school you'd want to work for, I'd imagine ...

And it sounds like you want to do this the right way. You could probably find employment in many countries in Asia, but not legal employment. As I said, somebody in China would hire you. Look at Vietnam, or Cambodia, where you may not need BAs to secure legal employment. Possibly Thailand.

I too would urge you to acquire more credentials before thinking seriously about TEFL.

[orangiey]

Hi Guys
I am looking to start NEXT year which is why the checking up. We are willing to do a TEFL course and wonder whivh is best. WE are not in this for the money but the expeience. We do currently work full-time so not sure if we can study on-line or parttime to fit around our current work.
I am confused also as there seems to be lots of jobs not needing a degree just the TESL, which we intend to get anyway.
Can anyone expand on this?
Thanks
Orangiey

[lucy k]

There are always places, such as language schools in various countries, where you can find jobs without a degree. Of course I can only comment on my own experience, but at the language school I worked at in Santiago, Chile, there were plenty of people without degrees. However, those without degrees were not recruited from abroad. They were already in Santiago and happened to apply when the school needed teachers. And this place was not the greatest place to work either, but the students were nice and it allowed us to live in Santiago. You won't get the highest paying jobs without a degree, but that doesn't seem to be a priority for you. So, it is possible, but definitely harder than if you had a degree and a CELTA.

Also, don't give up on taking the cats. I don't have an specific information on it, but I know plenty of people who have brought pets (both cats and dogs) to Turkey at least!

Good luck!

[Stephen Jones]

Unless you both work at MacDonalds I think you are being farily foolish. EFL is a badly paying field, even for those who are qualified teachers. Without a degree you will always be taking the worse paying jobs, which will get steadly worse paid as you get older.

Still, if you want a couple of years to explore the world, you should be able to get some kind of work, just expect to be broke when you get back.

There are only two EFL qualifications worth having - the CELTA or the Trintiy Cert. Others may teach you a little or a lot, but will have no value in the market.

Taking the cats along might not be a bad idea. Who knows when you will need an emergency food supply. Just use any recipe for rabbit.

[distiller]

If you want to make a real career move into TEFL then you have to make the commitment any career change means. You would not just stop being a mechanic and then switch to being an accountant without some type of real transition strategy. TEFL does have its share of places that will take anyone who speaks English, but those are also the places that most professional teachers would never go and the ones that pay horribly and mistreat their teahers because they know that there are hundreds more "canidates" wandering around the youth hostel area or on a gap year adventure. If you want to get into TEFL and get past all of this "there's no money, no security" nonsense then you have to invest in your education or at least training. A BA in education is good, as is a TEFL/CELTA certification. Beyond that many of the best places in the world also want a PGCE or an MA. Without a least one of these most teachers are confined to working at McSchools with low wages and little security. Depending on your needs, that may be fine but if you are looking for more than a means of traveling on slave wages for a while then I would put the work in and get the qualifications.

[orangiey]

Well heres a turn up for the books!

i have just inherited (yesterday) enought money to do the CELTA course for us both , which thanks to all your help we are going to do, if we pass the interview! Not sure if to do in UK before we go or go somewhere like BA and do it there as we can now afford to take the time out of work. If we do it in the UK it will be part-time as we don't want to give up our jobs yet and noway will the bosses give us time off. Any expereinces?

Thanks

Orangiey

[Twisting in the Wind]

Hi,

Read your post. It seems to me that VESL (Vocational English as a Second Language) might be a nice fit for you and your wife. I'm not sure what they call it in the UK< but that's the acronym in the US. It is basically non-academic ESL/EFL. You contract with a company to teach their employees basic workplace vocab, safety signs and issues, etc...there was a big push for English only in the US workplace several years ago due to the need for companies to comply with the ISO 2000 rules and so VESL was really big in the '90's and up into the early 2000's. However, due to a downturn in the US economy, employers nowadays seem less willing to shell out for English courses for their employees. However, you may be able to still find something. The money's decent--it pays more than private conversation schools, and more than the school district I worked for (I was making $40.00/hr teaching VESL in the '90's) The trouble is, as with most ESL/EFL jobs in getting the hours, but it sounds as if it might be a nice fit for you given your somewhat limited qualifications. The lady who hired me said she specifically wasn't looking for a college grad because she wanted someone who could relate to the ss, since they were not college educated, and some other college-educated people she had worked with previously had not worked out because they just couldn't get down to the level of the employees. (She ended up hiring me anyway, even tho I had my degree, because I had had a lot of experience working with ss from lower socio-economic backgrounds.)

You do list some rather specific "requirements"--Buenos Aires, the cats...and I'm not sure you can afford to be so choosy at this point. Keep your eyes posted to Daves for VESL jobs. They appear from time to time--it's where I got mine.Feel free to PM Me if you'd like to discuss VESL further. Good luck!

[SueH]

Dear ORangiey,

I notice that you're in the UK. Try your local college for CELTA courses: I did mine at a local FE college on a part-time basis. It's a good foundation on which to build. If you do do it in the UK it also has the advantage of exposure to multi-lingual classes and and all the associated cultural diversity that implies.

Start also to add (?) to your library of English language related books: it's not until one has to explain something that you appreciate ones own gaps in knowledge.

[Gordon]

[Chris_Crossley]

Putting in the effort to get qualified indicates to a future employer that you are serious about the profession you want to enter or else, if you are in it already, to rise to a higher position. Employers will rarely want people who think about a job just on a whim unless they are the kind of employers who are only too happy to employ people who say "Oh, I'm not in it for the money." It is this kind of person who, too late, finds out after signing any contract that the money is slave wages.

Getting the qualifications not only indicates seriousness about what you want to do, it can also help you to get (slightly) higher pay than any colleagues doing the same job. At the public primary school in China, where I taught until fairly recently, two of my colleagues were guys who had neither a degree (because they dropped out of college after two years) nor a certificate to teach English. Their jobs were as demanding and rewarding as those undertaken by their slightly more qualified colleagues, but, ultimately, they received less money than their peers.

Of course, one has to weigh up the pros and cons of being either qualified or unqualified. One could substitute four years of study for an honours degree at a university for four years of paid work experience instead. It all depends upon your priorities. One could conceivably get those four years of work experience teaching ESL abroad and then come back home armed with that experience. That experience should get you a valuable foot in the door compared to someone who has just completed a college degree but has little or else no work experience abroad to speak of at all.

Having said that, whoever employs you may have one view of "work experience and no degree", whereas another may have a complete different view, such as "degree essential, but no work experience does not really matter". One would therefore need to check out what employers are really looking for before one considers applying for a job there. If you really want to work at a particular place and they want particular qualifications and work experience, then I would always suggest getting them first.

[carnac]

[quote="Stephen Jones"]EFL is a badly paying field, even for those who are qualified teachers. ]

Disagree. Can be just fine. Depends on many variables, including how good a negotiator you are. First, you need a decent education. Then, you need the right geographic location. Obviously, Saudi, for instance, will pay better than Tonga. Then consider advantages in many places of tax-free salary and translate the pay.

It is not a "badly-paying field", it's just that some areas pay less and some teachers settle for less, either forcibly or voluntarily.

Personally, I do it for both for the love of it AND the money, which is just fine. You have to be selective.

If the cats got in the way of my money I would, as Mr. Jones suggested, consider first a flambe to remove the hair, then a simple parboiling to take away excess fat. Following this, the kitty may be prepared in any of the usual ways. I have found skewered cat morsels basted with teriyaki over charcoal to be most succulent, but then there are always so many opinions. Cat liver poached in a good Bordeaux with garlic and parsley is delectible, but you need at least 50 cats to make a decent meal for two.