Job Discussion Forums

[Gnome]

Have you noticed how much the Gulf countries are donating to the effort in South East Asia? Here is a breakdown from Canada's Globe and Mail this week:

- Saudi Arabia: $10 million
- Qatar: $10 million
- UAE: $2 million
- Kuwait: $2 million

Given that the hardest hit area is Indonesia, with the largest population of Muslims in the world, you would think that the very rich rulers of the Gulf region would be more generous, wouldn't you? (edited by moderator)

[Sheikhspeare]

ADMIN,

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE REMOVE THIS RACIST DRIVEL FROM HERE?

In the meantime, Gnome, PERHAPS you might want to show us some bank receipts or other evidence of how much YOU have donated.

You know it really bugs me and I think it's thoroughly disgusting when people use the grief of a major tragedy like this to make such cheap points.

Bill

[These comments refer to racist slurs before the above post was edited]

[KiteBiker]

The donation breakdown is legit. They should answer for this. The Thai inuendo is a cheap shot and reveals more about the OPs character than about the region. The angle is all wrong. Rather than making a religious argument [always a problem no matter what your faith], the angle of the controversy should be on economics. Lots of labor from these countries whether Muslim or non-Muslim are reaped by Gulf countries. They NEED these guys. It would make economic sense to help them out more.

[veiledsentiments]

Rather than insult and inuendo, let's take a look at the facts. This topic was discussed by Dr Juan Cole on his blog yesterday. He is certainly one of the most informed people on what is going on in the Middle East right now. He is one of my 'must-read' blogs every morning. I apologize to him if it is improper of me to copy this much from his website, but here it is:

As of 1/1, Reuters was reporting these responses to the tsunami from Middle Eastern countries:

--Qatar, $25 million
--Saudi Arabia, $10 million
--Kuwait, $2.1 million
--Algeria, $2 million
--Libya, $2 million
--UAE, $2 million
--Turkey, $1.25 million

I have suggested before that if you want to compare the donations, you can't do it in terms of absolute numbers. You have to look at the population of the country and at its per capita income.

The announced Saudi contribution of $10 million is probably about $0.66
cents a citizen on a per capita basis (I don't think the Saudi citizen
population can possibly be over 15 million no matter what Riyadh says). The initial US offer of $35 million was about $0.09 per person. Since US per
capita income is approximately 4.5 times that of Saudi Arabia ($8500 Atlas
method), however, the Saudi contribution should be seen as about $3.00 per citizen on a US scale, with regard to the real per capita burden. So the
Saudi was a generous initial offer in comparison to that of the US.

The USG is now pledging about $0.90 cents per person ($350 million).

The Qatar offer of $25 million is about $250 per citizen.

The Kuwait offer of $2 million is $2.00 per citizen or $1.00 per person if
guest workers are counted. Either way, it is comparable to the US offer on a per capita basis, and Kuwaiti per capita income is about half that of
Americans. So any way you cut it, the Kuwaitis are not being chintzy unless
you want to say Americans are moreso.

The Libyans are giving about $0.36 per person, and their per capita income
(purchasing power parity method) is a little over $6,000. That is about 1/7
of the US per capita income, so their contribution burdens the Libyans the
same way a roughly $2.50 per person contribution would burden Americans. Remember, the USG is currently giving ninety cents a person.

The Turks have offered 18 cents a person. But their per capita income is
only about $3000 per year, or a tenth that of an average American, so this
plege is equivalent to an American one of $1.80. That is, the Turks are
giving twice what Americans are if everything is taken into account.

The Australian pledge of $28 million is about $1.35 per person.

It is obvious that if we take their populations and actual per capita income
into account, the offers made by these governments are generally more
generous than that of the United States. A lot of Middle Eastern countries
have small populations, so even if they gave a lot per capita, it would look
small in absolute numbers. Apparently US pundits don't know things like the citizen population of Kuwait or the per capita income of Libya, and can't be bothered to look them up.

The Organization of the Islamic Conference (the foreign ministers of
Muslim-majority countries) is offering to coordinate aid from the area, and
is calling for Muslim countries to give the utmost.

And, civil society organizations are also swinging into action in places
like Qatar.

What explains this misplaced American high dudgeon? Petroleum wealth seems often to be coded by Americans as underserved and also as automatically making people rich. But this impression is exaggerated. Petroleum probably only accounts for about a fourth of Libya's gross domestic product. And the Saudi per capita income of about $8,500 per person per year (Atlas method) compares poorly to the US average of $38,000 per year per person. (And remember, these are averages and since both countries have a lot of billionnaires, ordinary people actually make much less). Americans don't seem to understand that on an average they are several times richer than the average Saudi.

It is particularly unfair to blame Kuwait, which has a reputation of doing
great, professional little development projects in Africa and elsewhere, and
which is still recovering from Saddam's brutal occupation and sabotage.
Since Tucker Carlson thought the recent Iraq war was so great, isn't he
grateful to Kuwait for allowing itself to be used as the launching pad? What
does an Arab country have to do to get a break from the US talking heads?
Sue to become the 51st state?

I wonder if Gelb or Carlson will ever apologize to the Kuwaitis and Saudis
(or whoever "they" are, who are "cheap"), and whether their incorrect
statements will ever be retracted.

(sorry about the odd lines and paragraphing...)

VS

[ImanH]

VS, great post.

[KiteBiker]

Great answer, VS.

By the way, Americans are moreso.

[KiteBiker]

Just had a quick look-see. I highly recommend it to everyone.

http://www.juancole.com/

Now what we should do is do comparisons of GDP/GNP ratios and how much the contries involved are economically reliant upon the stricken countries ...

[Sheikhspeare]

Okay, let's look at it like this:

Given that the US is spending around $9 billion monthly on the war in Iraq (see http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aairaqwarcost.htm) isn't it shameful that it can only muster a measly $35 million dollars for the South-East Asia tsunami disaster - the cost incidentally of just one B52 bomber!

In fact, Republicans spent twice that amount for their post-election victory celebrations.

Bill

[KiteBiker]

In the calculus of foreign policy and governance used in the highest public office in the USA, {in}security and pay-back will always trump starving orphans and bloated bodies found on the beach.

As for the Republicans having their post-electoral Wa-hoo, the Democrats don't fare much better. They blew a wad of cash on a candidate that was a yawner. At least Ross Perot paid his own way to defeat ...

[veiledsentiments]

It is absolutely embarrassing what the US govt gives - while repeatedly patting itself on the back as to how 'generous' we supposedly are. Yet when you use the GDP/GNP numbers the US consistently comes in about 22nd place when comparing developed countries.

It took the world pointing out that Bush was spending 40M on his coronation to make him finally raise the amount from 35M to 350M - still a pittance when compared to what is being wasted daily on the debacle in Iraq.

Did you notice that Bush gave $10,000 personally today? What took him so long?

Let me say one thing positive. I have been impressed by the number of American groups that are giving much more generously than the US govt. Almost every TV station is collecting money... if you go into the supermarket, they are asking if you want to add a few dollars to your payment... same if you go into the local K-Mart.

I worry about who is controlling these collections so that they actually get the money to those who need it. But, there has been an outpouring from 'average' Americans.

VS

[Gnome]

Just to update you on the per capita donations you have sited, please note that Australia announced that it will donate $1 billion. How many people live in Australia? 30 million?

As far as individual donations are concerned, the actress Sandra Bullock donated $1 million to the Red Cross.

Which one of the Al Sabahs or Maktoums wrote those $2 million checks? They blow more on the camel races each week. Shame!!

[ContemporaryDog]

[Sheikhspeare]

[gtidey]

[veiledsentiments]

The reason you can't find the racist drivel is because it was very sensibly removed by a moderator as irrelevent.

VS