Job Discussion Forums

[Sweetsee]

You walk into a classroom to begin your lesson and you are faced with a small group of students who do not stop talking amongst themselves after the others have come to attention. The other students are seated properly at their desks but these students are seated in every which manner; back to you, cross-legged, slouching over their desks, etc.

What do you do?

[easyasabc]

Just don't enter the classroom at all until they are all sitting quietly and giving you some respect.

I would always just wait at the door with my look of "I am the devil's best friend and if you make me wait much longer you'll be finding out what hell is like really soon". If they didn't comply the other kids usually then made them sit up and pay attention.

I know most of the Japanese teachers let them do whatever they want but when it's my lesson it's my rules and I don't tolerate kids being disrespectful like that.

[Glenski]

Sigh. Sweetsee and her 12 years of experience can't get a few kids to shut up in her high school.

Make them shut up. You are the boss.

[Nismo]

Walk over to your desk, calmly place your teaching materials on the desk, every-so-slowly place your hands on your hips as you ever-so-slightly widen your stance, and at the top of your lungs shout "DAMARE!!" Begin your lesson.

Just kidding, you'd probably get fired. I would try to single them out by asking them questions specifically.

[Captain Onigiri]

For those of you who read my last post, I got so obsessed about whether it was good advice, I decided I would just delete it. Sweetsee, while what I suggested would work in a Missouri public school, I know nothing about how things work in Japan. Please don't take my advice.

[Sweetsee]

Hi Captain Onigiri,

Ah man, I was really looking forward to reading what you had written. I had opened it, had a peek and had to get to class and now it's gone. Can you tell me the gist of it just out of curiosity?


Hi Glenski,

I have tried everything with those girls and in my vast experience I have never encountered such behavior. It doesn't help matters that I probably made a couple of mistakes in my attempts to bring them around.

I can tell anyone out there, and this is why I continue to bring up the issue, that under no circumstances should you ever take a student aside without a translator.

Furthermore, JTE has never experienced such behavior either. He says that they are demonstrating something Japanese girls are known for and that is holding a grudge, which I believe they will be taking to their graves.

And, JTE was shocked and in disbelief with one of the 2 main trouble-makers mother. She entered the classroom for the scheduled parent/teacher/student conference and lost her temper from the get-go. She didn't greet us and she said she would curse, he and I, if her daughter had to leave school. Rather than acknowledge her daughter's misbehavior and poor attendance record she defended her.

Myself, I have detached myself emotionally from school and look forward to my many paid holidays, high salary and bi-annual bonuses.


Hi Easyasabc & Nismo,

I appreciate your contributions and under other circumstances perhaps your ideas would bear fruit. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the individuals involved I don't see it working.


I brought this up again yesterday not because I am still seeking solutions to the problems plaguing my class but because I felt there was nothing happening in the forum yesterday.

Which brings me to the conclusion that I really need to concentrate my energy on something else, namely I hope to find an on-line course to occupy my time. Any suggestions? I am interested in writing.


Enjoy yourselves,
s

[buffy]

Hey S,
As this school year is almost over, I think you should just wash your hands of it this year and start afresh in April. Chalk this year up as a learning experience. I think you have learned a lot about classroom management this year, so start planning on how you will approach the new school year. I am sure that there are some in your classes who appreciate you being there, so aim your classes for them.
Good luck. Plan your spring holiday and spend your hard earned bonuses. Don't you have a spring bonus to look forward to as well? Teacher's where I am at get 3, albeit the March bonus is kind of small.
B

[JimDunlop2]

Well.... First off, I dunno why shouting "DAMARE" would get you fired.... I do i t all the time... It's very effective so you can't over-use it. But otherwise, it's just a very rude way to say "Shut the #$&(*@ up!" JTEs use this one but only rarely -- when they've had more than enough. This is also usually accompanied with: "SUARE" or "sit the #$(^@ down!"

Shouting "URUSAI" is almost equally as effective and much less rude. It litterally means "noisy" and the teachers use it all the time. To make it "extra-rude" change the last sound to EH. "URUSEH."

Anyway, specifically speaking, if/when I have a small group within a class that cause trouble while the rest seem to be ready for the lesson, I've been known to teach my entire lesson while standing immediately in front of/next to the students who can't shut up. It really puts a damper on their fun when the teacher is 1/2 a meter away....

Next, I've also learned that "the homeroom teacher" is a most effective weapon in keeping brats under control. Many times, I won't even bother disciplining students who are "over-the-top" stupid.... I just complain to their homeroom teacher... It's really his/her job to discipline the kids anyway. I've been told numerous times that this is the Japanese way. What if it doesn't work? Well, then you work your way up the chain. If it doesn't help, you then complain to the head of the teaching staff that the homeroom teacher cannot discipline your students. Then, the kyoto sensei, even kocho sensei if you must..... Remember, the last thing the homeroom teacher wants is to lose face in front of you and other teachers, having them think that they can't control their own students. Because at that point, you aren't complaining about the students anymore. You are complaining about a teacher not being able to do something about some students... It's rare, but I HAVE heard of students appearing in front of the kocho sensei before and having kocho lose his $h!t and start screaming the kids.... Must have been serious.

Finally, another effective method I used to use in eikaiwa (and occasionally in JHS) I have the kids discipline each other (their peers). A wonderful time-tested discipline technique in groups is to not punish the perpetrators but the rest of the group. Remember "Full Metal Jacket?" When Pvt. "Gomer Pile" steals a doughnut from the mess, he gets to stand in the middle of the barracks eating it while all around him, everyone else gets to do push-ups to pay for it... A similar method works well... If you can explain this to them in Japanese, tell them that their class functions as a team.... or even a family. And when their team or family has some members that don't pull their own weight, it has an impact on the rest of the team. Pass on the pain. Take your impossibility of teaching that class and make it the class's problem.

Take the kids to "Supplement City." Worksheets. Tests. Homework... Long, boring assignments. What's more, make sure the troublemaker kids are excempt from all of this. Make sure that the students understand that as long as a problem exists, you will not be willing to teach their class in a regular, entertaining manner. I can almost guarantee that the rest of the class will take it upon themselves to "deal with" the students who are causing their English class to suck. I would use this as a last resort because I don't care to punish the collective for the sins of a few, even if it IS highly effective... I think doing things the homeroom teacher/kocho sensei route is equally effective and much less stressful on everyone.

[Sweetsee]

Hi Buffy,

You said it. That is exactly what I am doing. I learned so much this year and I am very much looking forward to trying out the new me from April, as one poster said, no smiles until after Christmas. Well, don't know about that but anyway we'll see.

Regarding spring bonus, never heard that one and our school is in the process of trimming the bonuses. Winter bonus last year went from 3 months to two and there is talk about summer bonus being halved. Can't complain too much though as it is the first time to get bonuses for me and I am sure that many go without.


Hi Jim,

Thanks for the tips. Funny thing is, yesterday I was monitoring a standardized test in my homeroom and I was seated at the podium reading my book determined not to get bothered with the students and four girls from the gang were turned around yacking. I let it go, let it go and then without looking up from Venus in Furs I said in a strong voice, "urasai." Didn't hear a peep for the rest of the exam though I was sure they were going to whinge to JTE but I haven't heard anything. It was the first time to say anything like that but found it to be extremely effective.



Thanks you guys for taking time out of your busy schedules to weigh in on this topic.


Enjoy yourselves,
s

[azarashi sushi]

Hi Sweetsee,

I've enjoyed reading your posts... And good luck next year when you try out the new Sweetsee.

You say, the girls hold a grudge against you. I'm curious.... What do they consider that you have done wrong to them?

[Sweetsee]

Hi Azarashi Sushi,


Thanks for that, mate. What especially did you enjoy about my posts, if you don't mind me asking?

Where to begin? I messed up a lot this year.

They say I discriminated against them. They say that I singled them out from the class--which I did. They were the trouble-makers and one day I said so.

So, here you have a group of girls that carry on during classtime as though they were on break, inconsiderate of me attempting to conduct a lesson and inconsiderate of their fellow classmates who are trying to learn English.

Really, day in and day out it was completely, and continues to be, unnerving.

So, and I may be repeating myself, but one day I waited till the last 5 minutes of the lesson and then I asked them what had happened to one of their group, whom had fallen out and has since changed schools. They had no answer and then I told them that they had bullied her--plain and simple.

On another occasion, I made the mistake of attempting to have a talking to one of the ring-leaders. I took her to a conference room and told her that her behavior was unacceptable. Of course, she stopped listening from the first word and told her mother I said all kinds of negative things.

I'm sorry but I can't continue this anymore. Do you get the picture? I really am done with it and it isn't doing me any good to try to tell you what they consider.

IMHO, there are 2 big time losers who need others to lose with them. I blame the school for allowing this situation to become what it has. Afterall, one student changed schools and the atmosphere in the class absolutely sucks. We all sit there and wait while they noisily saunter in late, everyday there is a mountain of trash to be swept up from the days print-clubbing, one has a shopping bag full of pornographic manga that JTE finally told her to take home, etc.

Get this, we are an International School, supposedly. Mine is the International course. We had a foreign exchange student from Canada who up and split home without telling anyone, except me. And recently we had another foreign exchange student from our sister school in New Zealand who asked to move to another class. And I was told by JTE that this is to remain a secret within our class! Can you believe it? In fact, we will be hosting this student from tomorrow because they can't find anyone willing or able to do so. Same thing happened last year with a girl from Germany. She went through 3 different families before throwing in the towel and bagging back to the Motherland.

In the words of JTE, they are against English. So, that's what I am dealing with.


Again, thank you for the kind words and by the way, I always enjoy your posts Azarashi Sushi!

Enjoy yourself,
s

[azarashi sushi]

Thanks for that Sweetsee...

I guess some kids are just intrinsically bad and unless their parents are willing to accept that there is a problem, there's very little you can do about... You certainly sound though as if you have gambarimashta. Good on ya!

As for what I like about your posts... you come across as a friendly person with a good sense of humour (at least that's my impression) and I appreciate the openess in your posts.

Again, good luck!

[homersimpson]

Sweetsee,
It's a good thing you're planning to leave your apparently hellish job, a new start will help.
Some interesting posts on classroom management issues here. I was curioius to know how many of you resort to yelling in class? Personally, I don't do it. I find it rather ineffective. Of course all the Japanese teachers (OK, most) have no problem screaming at the kids for any number of reasons. If, and when, I have problems in class my first move is to address the troublemaker; several things work here ("yakamashii" "sekarashii" "yose yo" "doo nai shitan" etc.). Again I do this without yellling; I just walk over to the kid in question and say it my normal speaking voice. All the kids in class laugh (both at the student and 'cause I'm using Japanese, which I rarely do in the classroom). Works like a charm.
On the rare occasions when it doesn't, I simply stand at the front of the room silent with my arms folded. Usually self-policing by other students occurs.
If both steps 1 and 2 fail, I simply give them an avalanche of worksheets and/or make them write 10 pages in their English notebooks. I explain to them that our "normal" English class is canceled today and they will have to self-study. Depending on my mood I either sit quietly in front until time is finished, walk around observing students (to make sure they're not catching up on the science homework they didn't finish), or I go back to the staff room.
This last option has rarely happened and when I did, it never happened again in that same class.

[Sweetsee]

Hi Homer,

Hold on there, partner. Who said anything about quitting my job? No way! As the previous poster indicated I have just come across a batch of bad kids and I have met the challenge and risen above it. No, no not the kid!

Thanks for weighing in on the matter and for what it's worth I have never raised my voice in class. Though, next term I want to be one of these teacher that never speaks above their normal voice level. Yes, I am very myuch looking forward to refining my teaching next term.


Enjoy yourself,
s

[Mike L.]