Job Discussion Forums

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Got this via e-mail.

I checked into it and it's true.

Anyone without degrees might want to read this:

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China info only

We have been receiving many inquiries regarding the change in China government
policy to require a Bachelor degree to teach in China generally and a Masters
degree to teach in universities and colleges.
We have been checking with our sources both inside the government and outside
and have come up with the following information for TESOL grads.

While there is a lot of public discussion by policy makers for changing the
qualifications for English teachers to include a degree at this time there has
been no final decision by the national government. However it appears that some
regional and local governments and some schools are anticipating this policy
change and are implementing a strong 뱑ecommendation?that all new arriving
English teachers have a degree.

We have been advised that should this policy change to require a degree ,
present teachers will probably be given a short time to젨 complete?a degree?or
have their visa revoked.
However, it is noted that the Chinese government has often made decisions
without thought for the implications and may very well pick a date upon which it
will implement new English teacher qualifications or?implement it?immediately.

We will be monitoring the situation carefully and will try and respond?to the
needs of our grads as times change.

In the meantime we strongly recommend that those who are already registered in
our Bachelor or Masters program or any other degree program complete their
degrees as soon as possible to protect themselves against any change in Chinese
policy.

[Professor Moriarty]

So what's new? This was brought to the attention of the forum around one whole year ago; hardly breaking news. If you don't have at least a BA and you are working in China as a foreign 'expert' (how can you be an expert without a degree in the relevant discipline) then you are working illegally.

[mike w]

[Susie]

Welcome to the debate!


Frankly, I think the salaries in China are too low for the government or local authorities or schools to require that overseas teachers have invested so much of their own time and parent's money to attain a bachelor's degree.

I think for a bachelor's degree (whether you can apply theory or not) to be a requirement, there should be a minimum salary (one that is much higher than the current one in China).

What do you think?

[writpetition]

Asking about degress is a short-cut way to determine who is or is not capable of teaching, especially a language. Knowledge, certification and ability to perform are different things altogether. Ability to to perform rests on knowledge and that's a given but 'certification' is a different kettle of fish.
Most people are too lazy or prejudiced or both to bother about truly ascertaining the abiltities of a prospective jobseeker, in this case specifically a foreign teacher of a language. An easy way is often sought and resorted to. I, too have been prey to this prejudice and not because of a degree despite experience and a wee bit more. I have a degree in Eng Lit but that's washed away in the face of a demand for a teacher with a certain profile that I can't match because (and I can't blame her) my mom could not give me that. At least, she facilitated an education for me, if that means anything and I'm drawn to believe that it counts for a lot less than it's made out to.
Prejudices, biases and what have you - they are the stuff of life. Gawd, if I were anything near a superman, I'd be tearing a lot of things into pieces...


(please excuse any anger you might sense....but boy, when at the recceiving end, a slap hurts...and it hurts more when you give up a lot to pursue a career that's deined you because...)

[Jolly]

[amandabarrick]

I agree on the minimum salary for English teachers, though I am not sure what the minimum should be. Each city has different prices and different costs of living, If smaller schools in smaller cities are required to pay teachers as much as teachers in Shanghai, well the consequences may be that smaller cities don't have foreign English teachers. Would each province or region have different minimum salaries? Will Colleges and Universities require an M.A.?
AB

[Talkdoc]

Most, although not all, of the foreign teachers at my university have a master's degree. It's not a requirement but it's obviously a definite preference on the part of the university and the FAO. I imagine they are anticipating the master's degree becoming a requirement one day.

What Beijing says and what actually happens in real life are often two different things. But it seems to me that if a Beijing does get serious about minimum education requirements, it will have two effects on salary; I suspect the starting salary will probably increase a bit but what I anticipate as the real advantage to us is the negotiating power we will have at contract renewal time - especially for the Chinese, who are highly-sensitized to resource shortages and broken promises, a bird in hand is worth 10 in the bush; particularly if one is looking for twelve. Once you have proven yourself to be a valuable resource, they will bend over backwards to keep you; especially if their hiring options are limited by enforced education requirements. But that's a big "if."

Doc

[amandabarrick]

the government intervention of English teacher's requirements combined with the economic trend in China of inflation make the future for ESL teaching in China look bright for most of us.
AB

[shenyanggerry]

It's supply and demand. In Montreal (Canada) universities usually require a PhD. A number of lecturers with Masters degrees fill in in high demand areas. There's even one C.A.L.L. teacher with a B.A. Hardly anyone is available with the skills to give this course.

Why should China be different. If they can get PhD's, they'll take them. If all they can get is BA's, are they really going to cancel the course?

[mandu]

i dont have a degree
but i have got english teaching experince
and iam also looking for a new job

so i wonder what my chances are now of getting a job without a degree?????

[yaco]

I have been informed that the authorities in GUANGZHOU have been targetting teachers who either dont have a

1) Valid Z Visa
2) Batchelor's Degree

My information is that 3 teachers have had their visa's revoked.

This raises the following questions

1) My understanding is that the schools have been forced to pay out the contracts.
2) It depends on how much 'Guanxi ' the school has with the authorities.
3) Schools will produce fake degrees if they are happy with the teachers.
4) Schools will get teachers to use F Visa's.

My school has 80 foreign teachers and I believe about 10 do not have Batchelor's Degrees. The college would be in trouble if they had to lose 10 teachers.

I wish, I didn't have a degree and the authorities visited and the school would have to release me and pay out my contract.

Wishful thinking on my behalf.

[Fiskadoro]

I am sure I heard about this supposed change over a year ago too. If it does come to pass, you could always just reply to one of those Spam emails...no, not those ones! - The ones that offer you a degree based on life experience...I am sure most schools in China wouldn't ask too many questions.

[Roger]

[Talkdoc]