Job Discussion Forums

teachergirl · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 6 Location: Canada

Just wondering about working in the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, or Finland. Any work, and if so - where? Thanks for any help - Rheanne

bnix · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 645

Seems like this one has been coming up a lot lately on the board.I am sure Scot47 will also add his comments,which are very trenchant.

No,Rheanne,there are just not many TESOL jobs(if any) in places like Denmark,Sweden,Norway.One,you are not EU...so that is a strike against you(I did not make the rules...that is just the way it is).Two, places like Denmark already have a high level of English...they have their own teachers.We are talking about very high standards of living ....we are not talking about some places that are begging for foreign teachers...Basically,they don't need us.I would like to teach in Denmark or Sweden,but like a lot of other TESOL teachers,I know it is not realistic,so I concentrate on the places where there are jobs.

Of the places that you mention in your post,,,Finland would probably be the most likely place where you might find something(I believe they are also EU,though).The Netherlands...I doubt it.Other places you probably will not find work:Malta,Switzerland, and maybe a few others in Europe.

Basically,the jobs for foreign teachers just are not there(in the countries mentioned).Please,notice,other posters,I am severly curtailing my use of uppercase letters... Smile

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

bnix is right.

First all the countries you mention are EU members and US citizens have great difficulty working in EU countries.

Second the State Education systems are so good that most students leave school at leat close to bi-lingual. The Dutch that I have met all speak 4 languages - thanks to their Education system.
I currently have two German teenagers staying here and they are quite capable in English and French as well as German. They also speak a little Russian.

Third, in 12 years I have only seen a couple of jobs advertised in Finland and a couple in Sweden.

Sorry, but what you WANT to do has little chance of being realised because of world realities.

The Baltic States, however, should be feasable. Try looking in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Poland also advertises quite heavily, as does the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Personally I'd avoid Belorussia - but then they arrested be at the border last time I went through there.

One final thought - this isn't really the best site for finding European jobs.
Maybe look on other sites.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Negative or realistic ? I am pleased that there is an element of realism in this site. I think many newcomers genuinely believe that there are jobs everywhere. There aren't.

A monoglot Frenchman with neither training nor qualifications would not get a job teaching French in the UK or US. So your chances of getting a job teaching English in one of the developed countries in N. Europe. Nil or very close to it.

There are elements within the EFL/ESL business who actively encourage the belief that the world is your oyster when you have Dr Ripoff's TEFL Cert. This is not the case.

There are jobs but most of them are in parts of the world that are not as attractive as Northern Europe. Do you think that we are teaching in Saudi Arabia for the richly rewarding cultural experience ?

bnix · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 645

I agree.The only thing I might add is that Czech,Poland,Estonia,Lithuania and Latvia are also going EU,so,if you are not EU,you would probably have difficulty getting the necessary papers there,too.
Europe,for non-EU people, is becoming very difficult(to get a job in).There are a few places left.I know a man teaching in Moldova(I don't think he likes teaching there much).I would not recommend places like Belarus.Europe is becoming more or less a closed door to non-EU people.Sorry...I guess their progress is our distress.But of course,there are other areas in the world which are open to you.

teachergirl · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 6 Location: Canada

scot47:

Obviously I did not explain myself well enough in my last post, I do not expect that as a Canadian citizen I will be given any kind of priority in Europe for jobs. EU members and European citizens should have first chance getting European jobs - that's fair and common sense. I was just looking for advice about prospects - I apologize that you seemed to be so offended at my question.

I'm also not sure what you meant by that Frenchman statement. I have two years teaching and supervisor experience in Asia, and put up with shady business practices there. I am not a green horn, I was just trying to see what it would be like in a different region. And yes, I am looking for realistic information - but as you may know there are a lot of discourging posts for other countries (like Korea) and yet the work environment is actually OK.

I realize and appreciate that these forums are mainly used as warnings about schools or regions - I was looking for realistic but positive posts that might lead me to certain schools; just as the negative posts lead me away from certain schools. I appreciate your relpy, and I hope I haven't somehow offended you. If there is anyone else out there who can help, it would be appreciated. Rheanne

Ozone · Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Posts: 27 Location: Denmark

Hej Rheanne,

I can only speak for Denmark--here it is impossible to find work as an English teacher unless you are "legal" (ie have the equivalent of a "green card") and the only way to get that is through marriage, family, or by being a scientist or researcher (with a Phd) AND finding the job before you enter the country (probably the same rules you have in Canada).

The American-Scandinavian Foundation (http://www.amscan.org) contains useful information for US citizens who want to work in Denmark, Sweden, Norway or Finland. They can even arrange traineeships for teaching English in Finland. Maybe there is something similar for Canadians? Good luck.

waxwing · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 719 Location: China

Warning: not helpful but just general chat...

All the 'Scans' I have ever met speak impossibly good English. As a youngster I did the 'backpacker run to Greece, Italy etc. a couple of times.. one met alot of beautiful blonde Swedish girls Laughing

.. and frankly they could teach most of us a thing or two about English. It really is a humbling experience.
I also spent a couple of years working in Luxembourg (nestled between Belgium, France and Germany if you can't remember). The education system is such that *most* people under 25 are quadri-lingual (I just made up that word, sorry Smile

). They speak perfect French, perfect German, passable English (we would call ourselves completely fluent if we were as good at French, say), and... Luxembourgish! (yes, it exists! moyen!)
It's sad but true that people like this just don't need our help..

Ozone · Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Posts: 27 Location: Denmark

Yes, it's true that younger well-educated people don't need any help. However, MANY older people, as well as younger people with technical/vocational educations instead of academic, have a beginner/low-intermediate level of English, which puts them at a big disadvantage. I've taught mechanics and farmers, for example. Immigrants/refugees are also at a disadvantage. I used to teach a group of Tamil and Somalian children of refugees--so that they could catch up with their Danish peers in school.

Poetic · Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 13

hey ozone
thank you for the information that you have given us about denmark. I myself would love to go back to norway to teach english as a second language. But i see that there is a difficult with finding a job in denmark. I speak norwegian and i know i wouldn't have a problem what so ever..well ozone..did you go to asia to teach english by any chance and how did you find it..
okey thanks
bye
poetic

dln · Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 11

For what it's worth, I can tell you about my experience in the Netherlands. I'm a US citizen and moved there because of my husband's job. A University wanted to hire me right away, and were willing to go to court to petition for a work permit for me. This request was denied by the Dutch courts. After 18 months, my husband's employer finally signed a deal for spouses to gain legal work permits, and I was able to work the last two years we were living in the country. The point of the saga is that, even with my potential employer willing to go to great lengths to hire me, the legal situation for non-EU citizens is very nearly impossible in the Netherlands.

Ozone · Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Posts: 27 Location: Denmark

The same in Denmark: you need to be married (as I was) to or legal partners with a Dane before any language school will even consider you. Poetic: I taught in China in July and August at a summer school. I found the job here on Dave's. The experience was......interesting.

Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

Miss Scarborough, you didn't mention that the information in your site corkid.co.uk is not free. It costs about a fiver a time...

Lucy Snow · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 218 Location: US

ejw · Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 15

I know that many people would love to teach in Europe but I have to add that the reality of the situation is that, at least in Sweden, there are NO ESL jobs. I have been a permanent resident here since 1980, married to a Swede, and speak fluent Swedish which is what got me a total of 12 hours a week for six weeks at a major language institute in Gothenburg. I was expecting to get at least 6 hours a week in the fall and then got a letter from the institute explaining that they had just lost some important clients and that their entire staff of 6 full-time English instructors were suddenly without work. If, however, a person is a qualified teacher in math/science, for example, then you might be able to get a job in a regular international school.

If you have teaching certification, you can check out the following site for the International School of the Gothenburg Region. http://www.isgr.se/

Good luck,
EJW