Job Discussion Forums

[quejt]

Greetings from Bogota

I just got here last sunday after spending an embarrassingly large amount of time on this site. I hope this interests some of you and others will have some feedback. Its a group email I sent to friends and family and if anyone wants to be included let me know.

paste is below.



This one won�t be the most pleasant to read so be forewarned. I�m having some troubles and I haven�t decided what to do next, so I�m writing for myself to work out whats happened so far.

After almost a week of running errands, getting acclimated to the surroundings and the thin air I finally went to the Centro Colombia to see about work. What a wierd experience. Supposedly the best english language school in Bogota, the lady didn�t speak a word of English. We had an interview on the spot, in Spanish, so I didn�t get alot of what she was saying. I did gather that she wouldn�t consider hiring me because of lack of experience and that I didn�t have a work visa. On the other hand she may have wanted to hire me illegally. Its such a catch 22. She said that they can provide no assistance with work visas but my research indicates that a work visa requires several documents provided by the employer. Anyway, she gave me a real bad vibe and didn�t seem interested in giving any advice for looking for work elsewhere.

Later today, I went to a second school which was highly recommended by two people I�ve met in Colombia, Instituto Meyer, and spoke with the director there. No job offer, but at least she spoke english, and I understood her position better. She also said that she would only hire someone with a work visa. Although that would be another impossibility - work visa before a job offer - her reasoning made sense. Apparently, a year ago they went to alot of time and trouble to hire two foreigners and provide the work visas and then the two teachers changed their minds, they said they got a better offer. There was a lawyer who I suppose got paid without results or didn�t get paid for doing alot of work. I had no idea how to persuade her that I would stay.

so here�s this supposedly 2nd best english school in Bogota and they haven�t hired a native speaker for the past year. Maybe someone who learns english as a second language can provide good instruction but it seems foolish of the government to make it so difficult for a native speaker to find work.

So I understood that this kind of thing could happen, but its still frustrating. Now I must decide whether to push the Bogota thing or move on to another city. Moving on would be the original plan and also is my impulse. Bogota means diminshing returns now that Centro Colombo is out of the picture. Keep going south from binational center to binational center till I either find work or I hit Buenos Aires and just accept that I�m a wanna be english teacher tourist. On the other hand, I like Bogota. Its brimming with energy, it feels european, it seems intellegent, sophisticated. It�s a big city, a real city like city like SF or NY. I also don�t feel afraid of the place anymore. I keep a healthy wariness about me, for thiefs and scammers, but I could imagine this as home, at least for a while.

Another aside, related to me feeling more at home here is that I climbed Mont Serrat yesterday. The lonely planet guide to South America said, I quote, "...walking up to mont serrat on a weekday, alone, is a good way to get robbed." I asked 3 locals about it and they all said that it wasn�t a problem. It was amazing climbing up the "escaleras" to the top, breathtaking from the point of view of my feelings and my lungs. And looking back on it, the experience is symptomatic of the whole public relation problem Colombia has. It�s a great place that somehow gets uglified in the eyes of us americans.

I�m sure that I can crack this nut if I want to. There�s obviously a need for a native speaker like myself. I�ve been approached by several people about giving classes or lessons. For now it seems that anything I do privately would be illegal as would a job in a school. Its a pity but I think I shall move on. Or not, as new developments arise.

[MixtecaMike]

The only useful things in Lonely Planet are the maps, and even they often leave much to be desired. Goodness knows who writes the crap that passes for "local color" in them, and it is only a bad habit (like smoking) that makes us even look at them. Quit now, and if you can't, just browse them in the airport bookstore on arrival, never buy the nasty things.

As for your job hunting, good luck, and I firmly believe that anywhere you go you'll find a decent job quicker when you are on the ground in the right country.

[amy1982]

Mike-

yes, lonely planet guides have misled me many times (in both directions - "bad" things turn out wonderful, and "good" things have been totally sketchy). i realize that nothing can tell me exactly what is going to happen on a given day when i go there (that would take all the adventure out of it anyway!) but, is there a guide you have come across that you would recommend? if it matters based on country, i plan to go to argentina (but i will be doing other traveling...)

thanks!

[eo-nomine]

The best guide is the local people. They don't try to sell their country and its sights like the professionals of Lonely Planet, Rough Guides or whatever. All the travel guides I've read merely threw heaps of praise on the touristy places and honeypots and dismissed the less visited places as uninteresting - I guess Lonely Planet (or any similar guide) might be worth buying if you want to know what to AVOID.

In Argentina, people seem more than happy to tell you where to go, why, when, how, etc. Argentines seem to do a lot of local tourism, even more since the devaluation (or so I've been told), so they know their country well! Unless you don't want to talk to anyone while you're there, I would recommend not bothering with a travel book. Just ask around!

I've hijacked this thread - sorry!

[Anth]

I didnt get a good feeling from your posting regarding the availability of teaching jobs in Bogota. Is it really that desolate? I am tempted to hop on a plane at the end of April to find a job...what do you think?

Anth

[quejt]

Gosh, it seems almost everyone has hijacked my thread, not just you eo-nomine, although miixta�s quitting smoking metaphor was funny and I can relate as I quit smoking 6 months ago. But you all are obsessing on Lonely Planets shortcomings when my point was that its not just LP, it�s everybody that thinks its more dangerous than it seems to me. Anyway, I have just the thing - I�ll post another email that I sent to friends, maybe that�ll get things back on track.

Anth - I�ve only been here a week and it was only one bad day. Don�t let that determine your actions. My understanding is that you need a clean police record and proof of teaching certification both with an apostille to get a work visa. Aside from the logistics of getting a work visa, it seems there is a great demand for native speaker teachers here. But once again, I�ve only been here a week, so I don�t really know the market yet.

paste begins below.

A, I think, quick update since my last post was such a "debbi downer"
(Saturday night Live reference). What follows is more cheery.

Went back to the hotel after writing that feeling pretty low, and sat down in the
patio area of the hotel. Started talking to an Austrian guy there in Spanish, but
we quickly changed gears to English. He gave me his perspective on workvisalandia.
He taught german privately for quite a while in Medellen 7 years ago. Very informative
but only some more parts to the puzzle, moreover I want a to work at a top notch
school and do it legally. He suggested that working illegally is accepted, ie,
I probably wouldn´t get in trouble and if I did, he talked about what might likely
happen. A Colombian guy joined us and then things got more fun. The language changed
gears back to Spanish and it was the most loud, lively, laughy conversation I´ve
ever had in Spanish. We talked about health, disgestive issues(the Colombiano was
either a doctor or working towards being one) and the different names for people
in Colombia(lets see if I remember - costenos, cachekos, paisas and chokoanos except
that the costenos call the the paisas cachekos or was it the other way around?)
and my debbi downer day.

Still beffuddled, I stayed in the hotel today while my clothes got washed and only
went out this afternoon. My plan was to go to several schools that taught spanish
to english speakers in the hope that the someone there might know something about
the english teaching scene. I also decided to go back to the Centro Colombo and
try to figure out what was going on there. I first went to Universidad externado
de Colombia. It was mostly closed but the security or info guy was encouraging and
said to come back Monday and that they taught english there. Figuring I´d wait
until Monday to look into the other spanish language schools, I went to Centro Colombo
where I got creeped out by my rejection in spanish. this time though, I didn´t
ask directly for a job, I just planned to find out more about the place. I told
the security guy my intentions and asked if there were any english teachers there
I could speak to. He sent me in to the shcool, not across the street to the administrative
office where I went last time. I spoke with an English teacher there. Much more
encouraging, or at least not creepy, and such a relief powerful relief to be on
the same page. There are no native english teachers there now, the last ones a year
ago had no experience and students complained. They also had no TEFL certification,
so I may have a chance. Her english was less than perfect so that gave me a glimmer
of hope as well. She reacted enthusiastically when I said that I wanted to work
for a "good" school, not for someone who just wanted to make money and
use my white face as an advertisement. She said that there was continual professional
development there although that wasn´t the word she used. In other words, someone
observes your teaching, tells you what you did right or wrong, and you become a
better teacher for it. Upshot is she gave me the name of someone to talk to, who
speaks english and I think is more on the academic end than the lady I spoke to
yesterday. I´ll contact her Monday.

[nomadamericana]

Quejt~
Thanks for posting your emails. I think they are very interesting. I wish you the best of luck Monday... and hope you find out more info... and maybe a job. Suerte con todo!

~NA

[MixtecaMike]

Be persistent without being annoying and I'm sure you'll find something. Probably the worst thing that can happen if you're caught teaching without a visa is that you will be fined and deported, more likely you will be asked to leave within x number of days.

Even I worked without a proper visa in Guatemala for a while and almost all the native English speaker teachers I knew were mojados and nobody seemed to mind. From what you've posted so far it seems to be the same down south in Colombia.

Just one thing to be careful of, make sure you trust your boss-to-be because if you do have work or pay problems you won't have a leg to stand on legally.

[Anth]

I am keen on learning what happens with your job search....I guess at the moment your postings are like a litmus test for me in deciding whether i should take the risk in coming down or not....please keep me posted, and good luck!!

[lozwich]

Me too! Its good to finally get some information about Colombia!

Suerte,
Lozwich.

[quejt]

I did alot of lurking on poorbuthappy.com, a site on colombia. Alot of people on that site actually live there although just like this one, its a fractured view of reality.

lozwich, I remember reading some of your posts in the past. Aren�t you working in south america now?

paste begins below.



Hello all,

No real news, just an ongoing puzzle with a few more peices. As promised I went back to Centro Colombo and asked to speak with Louis. They sent me to the same office across the street which meant I would have to face the same person who told me sorry no job here. Determined, I went anyway and talked with the gatekeeper, telling her what I had done since I had last saw her, mentioning a couple names. This time she goes to the back office talks in spanish for a few minutes and comes back with an application and a grammar test. This is good. But no louis, she comes in only once a week, except not this week. I fill the thing out. The grammar is easy. From what I understood the gatekeeper(well I learned her name, by this time, Lena) was talking about a job in a collegio which is ages 12-17, not exactly what I was looking for. Still I�m curious how its going to turn out.

Monday I also went to la universidad de las Andes, which is supposed to be the best private university in Bogota. I spoke with a dept head, almost perfect english, and she wanted me to have some experience before hiring me. It was interesting to hear about the program there. To graduate, all students must pass the toefl which would allow them to go to a us university. They can take the english classes there or somewhere else. She didn�t have much to say on quality, non university, private , adult schools other than centro colombo and the british council. She thought I might be able to get a job at the universidad externado. She also concurred that I might be best off trying the other centro colombos in other cities.

Although I spoke with someone at externado today, she only designed the program so she gave me a name of the person running it, someone to see tomorrow. She also gave me a name of someone to talk to at the british council, where I also went. This guy informed me that I needed two years experience to work there and that they could only hire 20 percent foriegn workers. He also said that centro colombia and british council had interaction with their respective affiliated countries but no flow of money. He said that a union of some sort was in charge of hiring teachers at centro colombo and he was surprised to hear that there were no foreign teachers there. He seemed to think schools with some kind of professional development in place would be few and far between. He suggested some private schools in Bogota but from what I know of them, they would be plan B. British council has a deal where a teacher could use their facilities for a reasonable fee.

So a pattern is arising here. The best places want experience. The also want my native speaking ability, my BA and the CELTA. I don�t regret getting that last one. For one of the universities it was a requirement. We�ll see if my incomplete package can keep me out of the less prestegious places.

On the other hand I don�t know for sure what the demand is at the many private language schools here(plan B). I have a pretty good idea though, which is I could get a job pretty easy. one, even the best places don�t have any or alot of native speakers. two, there�s ads in the classified for native speaker teachers, which don�t mention experience. three, there�s a bullitin board ad for native speakers which doesn�t mention experience and the employee there said, yes, they were definitely looking for someone. I spoke to a current employee but he was stoned, didn�t really know or care although he was friendly enough in manner. He makes 8 dollars an hour under the table. I told this last part vaguely because of the illegal references. reason 4, On a whim, I went to another school which a student recommended to me., the natural learning corporation. He like the school as a student, maybe I�d like it as a teacher. The person I spoke with there seemed very interested because I was a native speaker(the ba and celta weren�t even commented on) and said she would let the person in charge of hiring know tomorrow. Though I don�t want to go to a formal interview because I�m not ready to take that job. It might be an interesting experience working there but actually I think it would be just plain wierd.

I�d like to move on to other binational centers in other colombian cities but it seems each day brings a couple more people to speak with the next day.

[Anth]

Wow...fascinating experience you seem to be having! I think that the your postings probably have more useful information on finding teaching jobs in Colombia than all of cyberspace! I am wondering where you are finding these classified postings for private schools hiring teachers? I be on the next flight following my April exams if i could find a job for eight dollars an hour (i know that this sounds desparate, but I am back in school in September and am only looking for a summer gig).

Good luck and dont become disheartened too quickly...i think that you are on to something....please keep posting!!!!

Anth

[lozwich]

[quejt]

written march 3rd:

Got a bit fed up with Bogota so I up and left. This was right after spending all day trying to talk with two people whose receptionists said would be available at such and such a time. The first was just a no show. The next was there but in a meeting. With a bit more latin america job hunting finesse I think I could of got in to see him. The trick is not to just say I want to teach english to the receptionist,no, better to say I spoke with so and so in the english dept and she suggested thatI speak to so and so. Maybe add that I would like information about looking for
work teaching english. ah well, live and learn.

Upshot was that I decided to move on to some other colombian cities to check out the centro colombos there. My efforts to find "good" schools were finding scant results so I decided to move on to Medellin. Kind of impulsively, I started packing at 6 in the evening and by 930 that night me and all my worldly possessions were on the night bus. Quite cozy I might, with the strong airconditioning, two seats to myself and that pillow that I´m so glad I brought. Woke up that morning in a mountainous, jungly kind of curvy road place. There were those plants with the big 10 foot long leaves that you sometimes see in Los Angeles backyards growing all over the place. Everything was misty and grey. We kept going down and down until the jungle(cloud forest?) gave way to rolling farmland and then went steeply down into a deep narrow long valley that cradles the city of Medellin.

After this pleasant start, things went over a rough patch. I took a taxi to hotel cordoba, listed in lonely planet, who got lost and after he made enough wrong turns to allow me to know where I was and where I was going I just said drop me off, were close enough. I don´t know if he did it deliberately or not but I wasn´t up for making a scene out of it. Then, after walking a couple blocks in this new city all vuneralbe with my luggage in hand, the lady at hotel cordoba says that they don´t let foreigners stay there. Grrrr. So I walk a few more blocks trying believe that its perfectly normal to be dragging around my luggage in the busy downtown streets. Oh look, theres someone else doing it, it must OK. Ofcourse, thats probably what she was thinking. Get to the hotel, and the lady isn´t so friendly at the desk and it turns out theres no hot water. Still, freshing up feels good and I go out to sieze the day.

Talk to a teacher at centro colombo. Great guy. Made me want to teach there. Had a bad tasting lunch and talked with the director who I had corresponded with before. No job but I would be qualified to work there if there was an opening. He tried to warn me off being exploited by explaining what they pay, what the benefits are. Nice guy. Tried to make a distintion between different kinds of contracts, some more legitamate that others. He currently has two native speakers there so hes familiar with the visa process and he said it took them 6 months to arrange the thing overseas. I tried to press him why it takes so long, explaining what was involved in getting my documents together, which once I knew what to do, was basically one day schlepping from one side of LA to the other and back. He said something about thats the difference between the US and Colombia. What that difference is however...central government
vs federal...corruption...I´m not too sure. He said that the apostille was correct for the CELTA letter but that the police clearance letter was not necessary. This was confirmed by the director of studies that he sent me to later that afternoonat a different university. This second place was the same story, seemed like a great place to work, had foriegners working there, my qualifications were fine, but probably no job now. She did want me to leave my documents there tomorrow so theres a small chance this fish will bite. Said something about bringing it up to the committee.

One thing about Medellin is there are some super friendly people when it came to helping me out with directions from the first place to the second place. I had like two hours to find this place or wait till monday. On two separate occasions a group of 3 or four people simultaniously helped me find the place. It was really over the top. First days impression: the people here seem a lot more friendly than Bogota.

written march 4th:
An interesting morning jobwise. Took a nap this afternoon to chill out from whats been a somewhat fast pace.

Dropped off my papers and filled out an application with eafit for the receptionist who, although friendly, gave me the impression that no job was forthcoming. I�m beginning to think that there�s a little more to these receptionist�s jobs than just reception. At least in the good cop bad cop world, I�m beginning to see who plays what role. The receptionist gave me the name of another place which I went to. The director was pretty abrupt - no work visa, no job. He spoke excellent but accented english but the guy sitting accross the desk from him was an American who was there on business of his own. The american wanted to shoot the crap with me about the visa situation but it wasn�t his place so I only stayed a little while. Interestingly, he married a colombian woman but had to do it by proxy, with some other guy standing in his place. We all had a laugh over this as it seemed to easily lead to some unwanted conclusions over what else was being done by proxy.

The next place was more juicy, jobwise. The place was recommended by a place that was recommended by a place where I would want to work and I got a tentative offer from the owner who spoke very good second language english. However, some major drawbacks for me and one for the owner of the school. For the owner, my tourist visa was only for a month and she would want me to work for a bit longer than that. For me, the problem was mainly that she was unwilling to sponser a work visa so the work would be under the table as she put it. Also, it sounded like I would be doing some travelling to teach business classes which sounded like a pain. The main thing is the visa but she did a pretty good job of explaining her side. One thing is the commitment factor, which I had heard before. Another is that its a pain dealing with the red tape. Lastly, and what seemed like the most important, was that she employs teachers part time on an as needed basis. A work visa could only be for a job that conforms with colombian labor laws which would guaruntee me a full time salary regardless of whether there were students to teach or not. Not to mention all sorts of other benefits like health insurance etc. It seemed like this was the sort of job that other guy in centro colombo was warning me about. So we left it by saying lets not close any doors meaning I would continue to search for that work visa sponsor but would consider working for her should that not work out and I reconciled myself to or figured a way around overstaying my tourist visa.

So one more part of the puzzle and now I try to generalize my experiences. The work visa regulations don�t match the economical realities of engish teaching in colombia. In other words, a typical business owner, either through greed or just the need to price their classes competitively often hire teachers by peice work, thereby eliminating the risk of paying a teacher when there�s no students. Perhaps if an organization is large enough it can eliminate some of vacillations in enrollment allowing full time employees. Or maybe it just has to be a public institution that can�t get away with doing things efficiently, albeit illegally.

What this all means for me I�m not to sure except that I�m planning on going to the coffee region tomorrow, to check out the centro colombos there in three small cities clustered close to each other, Pereira, Manizales and and Armenia. I am in a sense entering the blank areas of the map as these places aren�t discussed in my trusty lonely planet guide.

This next part is for my mom who plaintively emailed me "where are you?" and anyone else who wants to read a firsttimers immpression of Medellin. Warning, this is going to sound like it was lifted right out of a guide book.

I�m in Medellin, the second largest city in Colombia, about 3000 feet above sea level. Can�t quite figure out the weather here. They have fans in the hotel room, its been cloudy today, sunny yesterday, rain in both afternoons. Its supposed to be the "city of eternal spring" but to me its decidely on the sultry side. Yesterday was supposed to be as hot as as it gets. People dress in in tshirts unlike Bogota but like over there no one wears shorts, even though its definitely "shorts" weather.

Medellin is located centrally northwest of bogota between the western and central branches of the Andes mountain range. The mountains surround the city and look inviting with clouds swirling about their tops. The people here call themselves paisas which I guess means people from the country, and seems a bit ethnocentric. Like an american indian tribe I read about in Micheners Centenial that called themselves "the people". It does feel a more country-ish as opposed to citified than Bogota even though its a huge city, with a light rail system. There seems to be less economic activity downtown than Bogota. I understood it to be the cultural or intellectual center of Colombia but that side has yet to present itself to me. It was developed in this century so there is little colonial architecture.

I�m staying in downtown which is a bit on the seedy side. The two resturants I�ve been to, as well as the street food have been lower quality and more expensive than what I found in Bogota. The hotel is 4 more dollars a night but is worlds apart from the place I stayed in Bogota. Although architecturally more modern and shaped like a standard hotel, there is no hot water, unused common areas, no fellow travelors to hang out with, and no kitchen. Although the fridge in the room had beers, sodas and peanuts which was a nice touch I availed myself to. Nothing like a beer and peanuts to finish off a hard days work. I problably should have stayed at the gringo hotel which has all that stuff but once I got settled it didn�t make sense to move. I�ll probably be moving on to Pereira tomorrow anyway.The area I looked for work, I think called el poblado, is another story. Lots of domestic workers out and about, mostly in uniform, landscaped front yards. Lovely decidious trees of unkown variety lined the streets. No loitering, panhandling, peddling or passed out riff-raff here! Its separated from downtown by big industrial area and a curious bridge complex for pedestrians on Las Vegas street which crosses a major highway. Very Dysneyesque ala tomorrow land or Dr Suess like in its excess of pedestrian choices. There were empty concession stands, two military guys, and way more molded concrete, curving on and off ramps than necessary.

[quejt]

i believe theres several systems going on here. the Colombo in medellin is Jan to Dec according to the director