Job Discussion Forums

[Ry]

Ok, used that title just to get your attention, but it is basically on topic.

First off, new to the forum, though I have used Dave's for years.

Now, I have read some really interesting discussions here on Japanese racism, Japanese not liking it when foreigners speak Japanese, and weird Japanese restuarant situations. Well, here is what I would like to discuss and see what experience everyone has (and opinions):

It seems to me (and one of my Japanese friends actually first brought this up), that you don't have to think so much if you are Japanese. I mean that, the society is ordered and programed in such a way that you can go through your day, and even your life sort of on "autopilot."

A simple example would be the restuarant where everything is already in a set, and you don't change or mix anything. It is designed to be so easy for you, so you don't have to have the "pain" of choosing. We'll take this example and sort of appy it to the whole society.

It seems to me that there is the Japanese way, which is basically just the way it is, and if you follow that things will be fairly fine... but if you buck it, well you are headed for frustration.

Let me give another example. Japan is famous for customer service, the customer is king--supposedly. But just try to ask something out of the ordinary (or perhaps be out of the ordinary... like a foreigner speaking Japanese) and you very well may get no where. One example, I was staying in Shinjuku. I went to a bookstore and asked if they had English books. The clerks were extremely polite, the fetched the guy who spoke the best English, they seriously considered my requests, and finally--painfully--told me that indeed they did not sell such books. Fine, I asked if they knew where such a book store might be.... again, much consultation and deep thought, for the dame, sorry but no. Well, turns out I was about 10 blocks from one of the biggest bookstores in Japan, that has 1/2 a floor of English books. In fact, on block away was a small shop selling English books.

Now, is that good service? No, that is terrible (but polite) service. A group of employees working in a large book store should have some reasonable idea of the other bookstores in the area, and whether or not they may handle foreign books.

OK, that is just one example... but I am sure many people here have had similar experiences.

BTW: I am not Japan bashing or anything, I love the place... but I think there are three categories for a country or place: good to visit, good to live in as a foreigner, good to live in as a citizen. Japan gets the first 2 IMHO, but not the latter.

Ry

[Rorschach]

I have found Japanese people to be extremely rigid in their daily lives, they absolutely detest chnage and do not respond well to situations that involve complications. Recently I received a phone call and a letter from the Gas company informing me that I had to pay an outstanding charge on my last apartment. Fair enough, during the move mail gets lost or misplaced. They were very polite about it all but I could tell they weren't happy that my payment was late. What surprised me was that the outstanding payment was only 300yen. It struck me odd that such a fuss was created over such a small amount of money. If I was still in Australia the utility company in question probably would have written it off or folded the charge into my next bill.

I find it odd as well how some Japanese find it is so difficult to compromise, like Ry's example. It relates to how the learn English as well. Fully 80% of my students take no pleasure from learning the language and treat it more as an engineering project based on cause and effect. English is extremely intuitive and contextual and as a result requires a measure of imagination. Most of my students though only want enough English to give a particular response in a certain situation. I'm reminded a lot of Pavlovian Dogs whenever I teach Japanese students.

[DoctorPayne]

Don't people in most western cultures live their lives on autopilot? I'm from Canada and you should see the java junkies in the morning, on the train to work. I guess it depends on your profession, but overall I think most countries run on autopilot. I mean look at election results and consumer habits. Unfortunately most people lack true imagination and avoid change like the plague. But I won't be in Japan for a little bit yet so I guess I can't really say whether or not it is worse there. I hope not.

[fox1]

[Glenski]

[Ry]

Ok, fair enough Glenski. I could see they might not know about the small shop (although it is literally behind their store). But from what I know everyone in Japan practically knows of the Shinjuku bookstore (anyone got the name, I forget! )

It was my first ever visit to Tokyo, and the walking path from my hotel to the "main drag" of shops caused me to pass this bookstore first, so I went in. I knew enough to figure they wouldn't have English books, but I thought they (unlike my hotel receptionsist ) might know where the "big" book store was. (I had been told by a friend about it, but had forgotten the directions).

Anyhoo, as I said, that is just an example... I would appreciate similar stories. I find them fun.

And, just for the record, I find Tokyo an amazingly hopeful city. The fact that human beings are able to build, maintain, hell--imagine such a place is a testament to human greatness... and should be a source of imense pride for the Japanese. Also, just the fact that all those people are able to live there together its a testament to the positive aspects of Japanese culture/society.

Ry

[Ry]

[Brooks]

it`s Kinokuniya.
The new Maruzen down by Tokyo Station has even more English books, I read.

If you find Tokyo people annoying, go out to western Japan and you probably will find different kinds of people. Kansai people have a reputation for being friendly and Tokyo people are considered cold by many other Japanese.

[JimDunlop2]

I think I've gotten used to it mostly. I just mutter under my breath and vent to my wife when I'm presented by yet another instance of human (not necessarily Japanese) stupidity.

One thing I do find curious though is that many Japanese, I suppose in an attempt to be polite, present you with non-existant options. For instance:

Japanese company guy: (*translated): When would you like that done? Friday or Saturday?

Me: Well, Friday would be nice.

Japanese company guy: Ahh.... <sucking air through his teeth> Soo desu ne... Ano ne... Honto ni sumimasen ga..... chotto.... muzukashii desu ne.... (translation: Sorry but Saturday's completely out.)

Me: (under my breath): AAARRRRGHH!!! So whay did you say it in the first place?????!!!!!


I could give you many examples of this.. That's just the first one that came to my mind...

[shuize]

A recent example.

Writer: Will you check this article for me?

Me: Sure. (Cuts out bad parts and gives it back)

<The next day>

Writer: Will you check this (same) article again?

Me: Sure ... Wait. The parts I cut yesterday are all back in, unchanged.

Writer: Oh, sorry.

<The next day>

Writer: Will you check this (same) article again?

Me: Sure ... <Sigh> This is exactly the same as yesterday and the day before.

Writer: Oh, sorry.

<The next day>

Writer: Will you check this (same) article again?

Me: No.

Writer: <Mad> You're not being a team player.

[Mike L.]

OP wrote:

[Ry]

Mike,

Sorry, I don't live in Tokyo... I will be back there in May, at the same hotel, and I will seek out this store again. I have a vague picture in my head of where it was. I actually found it the day after my visit to the Japanese book store (I was bored an wandering around), and it was closed. Looked like it was owner by a westerner though... you know the signs were obviously native speaker, etc...

Ry

[guest of Japan]

The Maruzen near Tokyo station is a fantastic bookstore.

I thought the OP's post was pretty good. I didn't see much to disagree with. I also feel that really good customer service means being able to help your customers find what they are looking for even if it is in another store.

On a positive, I was once looking for an ELT book specializing in business email at Kinokuniya in Shinjuku. I was there at closing time and couldn't find an appropriate book. A clerk assisted me with my search and he too, came up empty. Finally he went into the back and got me copies of every publishing company catalogue of ELT materials they had (in English). I never found what I was looking for, but I was quite impressed at the service.

Another positive, recently I bought some clothes at Comme ca ism. The clerk told us that the clothes we were purchasing were going on sale the next week. He took the clothes to storage for us, and we came back during the time they were on sale to pick them up at a discounted price.

On a negative, try to buy something for your computer in an electronics store. Whenever you tell the clerk you have an English OS they freeze. They have absolutely no understanding of the products they sell. I've been told multiple times that ADSL in Japan won't work on an English OS. I've had clerks not be able to tell me how many pages per minute a printer could print despite it being written on the front of the printer. (This was when I couldn't read any Japanese)(I also had a translator who wasn't computer literate). I was told by a clerk that they never heard of a three prong plug adapter. I found one ten feet from where we had the conversation. (I had a translator for that purchase as well). LAN Card?, LAN Cable?

I haven't tried to buy anything lately, but I've enjoyed watching my wife shop around for a new computer. She explains her needs (which aren't that difficult), and invariably she is led to the most expensive computer they sell.

[Brooks]

Guest, have you tried shopping for electronics in Akihabara?

[guest of Japan]

Hey Brooks,

Occasionally I go to Akihabara. And I'll readily admit that they know their products. But, they're mostly non-Japanese workers. And who says you shouldn't start sentences with conjunctions?