Job Discussion Forums

[madrid26]

Hi.
Just wondering if anyone had taugh ESL in Puebla.

I'm a newbie. Taking ITTO Guadalajara course in January, then looking for a job.

My understanding is that for the purpose of getting a visa I should expect to agree to work at a particular school for one year. If that's the case I want to live in a great town.

Right now Puebla is at the top of my list. Has anyone worked there? Any advice, warnings, school recommendations?

Other choices are: Guadalajara, Zacatecas, Oaxaca (although I read a few discouraging posts), Cuernavaca.

I'd welcome any replies. Thanks.

[moonraven]

If I had to pick from your list, I guess it would have to be Zacatecas. (Too many gringos in Cuernavaca, urban sprawl, now no trees--thanks to the current narco-governor for all except the gringos. Oaxaca is expensive and very touristy. Guadalajara big, polluted, overrun with gringos. Puebla is flat, boring, full of Pipopes.)

[thelmadatter]

I think all the places you mention have their pros and cons and share much in common. Among the places you name, I would try to choose based on the best job you can get... you'll be spending much of your time at work. Even the prettiest place can seem ugly when you spend most of your time at a job you hate. Besides, the bus system in Mexico is excellent so visiting places is relatively easy (just need those wonderful two things - time and money) and can be very reasonable, cost-wise.

[MixtecaMike]

[lozwich]

[M@tt]

Hi,
Of the cities you listed, I've only been to Puebla (about 6 times to visit). So, my opinion is not worth much but I'm going to share it anyway.

Puebla is surprisingly cold. I was always coming from Veracruz state where, if you're near the coast, it's rarely below 15 celcius. Still, Puebla struck me as a pretty cold place both in terms of weather, "ambiente", and the people there. There are plenty of students there and the atmosphere is fairly European. This has its upside for lots of people: cafes, colonial architecture, attractive historical center, etc. I got the impression, from talking to lots of Mexicans about Puebla and my few visits, that they see themselves as sophisticated, well-bred people. There are evidently lots of the same Spanish families running things as there were a hundred years ago, and the city is fairly conservative (that word means absolutely nothing but I'm sure it created a picture for you). There were also lots of jokes about how you can't do anything in Puebla after 9PM because everyone is in bed.

Now, a friend from Campeche went to univ in Puebla and just raved about how fun it was in the evening, but then he was comparing it to Campeche... I think it's all relative.

Incidentally, the word Moonraven used to describe poblanos (pipope) is short for pinche pendejo poblano, which means roughly f***ing ***hole Poblano. Lots of Mexicans have never ever heard that term but you will learn it if you live nearby (like in Veracruz!). Poblanos have a reputation for being cold and arrogant. Still, it's a completely derogatory term and seem unfair to apply to an entire city or state of people. I've met very friendly, non-elitist Poblanos (in fact I lived with one for a year in Veracruz). I think if you choose your destinations in order NOT to be with groups of people it just reflects a certain mindset. Maybe you have good reasons for it but experience has taught me that it won't necessarrily make you a happier person. And if you want to avoid foreign people (like gringos) you ought to have a good reason why. Maybe there are undesirable qualities you attribute to gringos that are actually more common among the Mexicans you will end up living with...

Good luck.

[madrid26]

Thanks to all who replied regarding Puebla and other cities.

I'm hoping to avoid being cold so maybe Puebla is not the right choice for me.

I look forward to visiting, though. I studied a lot of Spanish and Mexican history so it will be fascinating to see "the most Spanish" Mexican city.

It was also interesting to read the comments about gringos, etc. Interesting debate topic. I'm looking forward to traveling in Mexcio and meeting locals and folks from other parts of the world, even Gringolandia.

Bye,
madrid

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[saraswati]

I agree that the word, more often than not, is used quite casually in most of Mexico but there are exceptions to this. I think it depends more on the context in which it is employed and the tone in which it is said. There was an incident in my son's school about a month ago. All of the boys were supposed to wear white guayaberas and white pants for their Hanal Pixan celebration. None of the boys in my son's class did, but he was singled out and rudely called a "gringo" for not having done so. THAT, in my opinion, is a slur.

(The funny thing is that my son is Mexican.)

[ls650]

[thelmadatter]

I think it depends where you are and the context of the use of the word... Ive heard it used as a slur and in rather comical ways. My BF occasionally calls me "gringuita" - hard to take THAT as a slur. Actually he is far more into "guerita" which sometimes gets on my nerves, but I have to realize that in HIS mind, its a wonderful thing to call me.

I fully believe it is not the word you use so much but the meaning behind it. If someone wants to insult me, s/he can do so without ever breathing the "g" word. On the other hand, how often have we changed designations for minorities and disabled people (or is it "special needs" or "differently abled"? Fork it, I call my son "disabled" because it is an accurate description when I need to describe it) simply because a term that was once "politically correct" gets used deragatorily and then a new euphemism must be thought of?

MR's use of the word 'gringo' is a slur because she fully means to insult Americans/white people.

[MixtecaMike]

[ls650]

[thelmadatter]

Annoyance is one thing, loathing is another.

I get annoyed with my fellow countrymen, too. After 3 months of living in Germany way back when, I started seriously downplaying my nationality because I was embarrassed by the other soldiers and their wives. Tourists are annoying, even within one's own country. But that is not the same as hating everything a country/people are and stand for.

As much as the soldiers and their families annoyed me in Germany, when the Wall fell, guess who was in the forefront continuing to welcome the East Germans after the West Germans quickly got tired of the little Trabbis clogging up their precious autobahns? Right, the Americans.

[moonraven]

Hmmm. Rather than trying to second guess my personal connotative application of the term, gringo, and getting all hot and lathered about it--why not ask me?

I would tell you the following:

1. Gringo is a term applied to foreigners in Latin America--more often than not to foreigners from the US. It is not necessarily an insult--just a description.

2. I avoid places that are over-run with gringos because--except for VERY few exceptions--they simply do not know how to behave properly in other cultural settings. Typically, they present themselves as described by ls650--or worse, especially the ones who think Mexico is only a place to get falling down drunk and chase women/men. I don't like to be around folks like that--which is one of the reasons I left the US almost 13 years ago.

3. Those folks who feel they have been insulted by my referring to certain places as gringolandia--what can I say? There are some folks on this forum who simply reek of cultural imperialism and are only out for their own gratification. They whine if it's not forthcoming in the way they think it should be--that is if the red carpet isn't laid out for them in terms of big salaries (which they would not receive in their home countires either, in the majority of cases.) I do not see these as attractive traits. Those folks will never be part of a real community here--and apparently that doesn't bother them. It WOULD bother me--and that's the difference between us.