Job Discussion Forums

Julia Girl · Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Kunming

Can anyone tell me anything about this school? It is located in the Jiagsu province. Thanks for any info you may have!

Laughing

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I do not know this school except that once I gathered information about one BOLAND SCHOOL which is headquartered either in Xuzhou or in Czech, Europe. Boland School, my former pal kvido benak informed me, was run by an American woman. The connection with XZuzhou Normal School? As far as I know - recruitment. Boland probably is in it for the selling of TEFL certs and the placing of teachers who have bought these certs. A guess supported by information that had come my way.

Xuzhou is a small town with that kind of charming oldish feel about it that some backwaters in China still command - it is not yet an eye-sore but it has little of the country's pre-socialist past. It is home to some important tombs of Chinese royalty (well, emperors, really), but of little else.
It is about half-way between the country's capital and Shanghai and within easy travelling distance from Qingdao, Tai'an, Qufu, Suzhou and Nanjing. NOt a bad place though a little off the beaten path.

Tao Burp · Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 118 Location: CHINA

Xuzhou is only about an hour or so busride from where I am in the Anhui Province. Everything that Roger has said is basically right. It's off the beaten path, but not as much off the beaten path where I am. I have been there numerous times. Xuzhou Normal College is of course a third tier college, but there really isn't much to the small city of Xuzhou. You can expect the daily barrage of gawking, staring, snickers, giggles, laughter, pointing, and always the constant echo of "laowai." They have one MacDonalds, and that's about it. Very industrialized since it is in the Eastern Part of China. They have an airport and a train station. The college itself isn't too bad, certainly better than where I am, but the city is polluted, and the bathrooms you can die for. As Roger said they do have some Ming Tombs and even a park in honor of the Battle of Huaihai between the PLA and the Kuomintang. But those sites should consume about maybe two days of touring if you push it. Don't expect a large amount of foreigners there! It all depends on what you are looking for and better yet, what you can handle. Best to keep this in mind.

Julia Girl · Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Kunming

Can you tell me what a good salary for 25 classroom hours at this school would be? I had a great contract until this SARS thing happened, not the school can't hire anyone and is locked down, so I am looking for an alternative plan for myself and my 2 female friends. That is why I'm looking att he school. My old school offered 5600 for 18 class room hours per week, at Xuzhou Normal University they want us to teach a minimum of 25 classroom hours + prep time for 5000. What do you all think?
Julia Rolling Eyes

Owen · Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Pay scale

Julia Girl · Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Kunming

Can you guys help me out? (i've been reading your posts everday for years now planning for my job here in China. I've visited, and I love it, dirtiness and all.

I think they are willing to negotiate. First they gave me the standard yucky offer of 2000 something per month. Then I said 10,000 (I know I won't get that) and they came back with 5000 and a 4400 travel allowance (BTW, how does the travel allowance work?). But they want 25 CLASS ROOM hours, in addition to lesson preparation time. I'm not looking for a free vacation in China, yet I worked hard to get the education to do this and I want a fair deal for quality work. To be honest, I'll probably spend a lot more time at the school doing office hours just for fun, but I would like to work out the best deal possible.

So the question is, what should the next move be? I have written the school asking them to increase my pay to 7500 for 25 class room hours or decrease it to 14-16 at 5000. I have TEFL experience with both Mandarin and French speaking students, a degree, certification, work experience, personal second language education, and I'm very well travelled.

How long does the negotiating process take usually? How will I know when I have reached the max offer? Any experiences or insight would be so appreciated!!!!!!
Julia

Julia Girl · Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Kunming

I am also in am MA program and will be doing some of my work while I am there.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Julia,
you seem to be desperate enough to settle for a job in China at such times, please, don't feel put off by negative feedback.
But your negotiation should revolve around the amount of work time rather than the salary level. It is manifest that they are trying to get maximum profit out of you, and this bodes ill, considering they are a public school that depends on public coffers (but may be run by an unscrupulous and greedy principal).
I would take the salary but not give them so much time! 5000 is good, but not any more if the workload exceeds 20 periods a week.
What subjects would you be doing?
If it is oral classes, I don't know how you are going to stand so many hours with virtually comatose students! If it is writing, think of the time you are going to mark papers and prepare lessons!

Another point: Travel allowance, that is your HOLIDAY TRAVEL pocket money. 4000 is about double the regular rate! Am I missing something? Just curious - did they offer a round trip airfare ticket? Claim a minimum of 5000 in addition to the holiday bonus!

Now do the maths again! Are they still going to roll out that red carpet? Probably not. Know what? They can bank on that BOland lady to supply a freshly-certified newbie from Prague!

Julia Girl · Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Kunming

Yes, 4400 is double the going rate for vacation travel. But I have negotiated that will 7 other contracts (I turned them down in favor of the school I chose that is nowunable to hire). So I think it must be pretty common now. Yes, I would take the 5000 if the teaching hours were 15 and prep time 10, no problem. But they want 25 TEACHING hours. I will be doing Oral, Written, and both American and British literatures. Let's see if I can get the hours down. In addition, there are 3 of us (all friends) who would be taking the offer. They only have to hire 5, so with us 3, they'd only need a couple more.
Does anyone know anything about the area?

Tao Burp · Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 118 Location: CHINA

Does anyone know anything about the area?
Did you see my post ?????????
I have been to Xuzhou many times. It's a small city--not a town or county, and it's in the northern part of the Jiangsu Province. Very industrialized and polluted. I have also been to that college last May for a teaching symposium. There's really nothing spectacular about it. It's not the Last Emperor's China. This part of China isn't that well developed. Your pay is exceedingly good for a college in this part of the woods, which may be good because boredom may become your best friend if you're not working 25 hours per week. If you want to travel, the train is convenient, but forget it being a short ride to any large city--Beijing is 11 hours away.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

I'd go ditto with Roger. Tell them absolutely no more then 20 teaching hours (ie, a 50 minute class is one teaching hour, this must be stated clearly) because of SARS they mat be short of teachers, and trying to have you do the job of two teachers, which will make you say no, and then they have no teachers.

Welcome to China Smile

Julia Girl · Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Kunming

Thanks everyone. You are all the best. Can I ask how long the process of working out the contract will take? is it usuallly hours, days, weeks...? I had my 2 girlfriends who are coming along with me send their resumes yesterday. They also have copies of our certifications pictures and everything so they know that there are 3 of us and they'd get all three if they give us a much more realistic number of classroom hours.

Do you think they will agree to fewer hours to have all three of us?

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I do not wish to get burned making false predictions. How long do you think they will display magnanimity and patience? In my experience, they are not likely to negotiate for a long time. It normally is "take it or leave it!"

Did they promise you to invite you on a work visa issued by the nearest Chinese consulate in your home country? If yes, then ask them to submit their contract to you forthwith!

If you have to come to China on a tourist visa - as the majority of us have to! - and they will upgrade it for you, be prepared for the agreed-upon stipulations in your contract(s) to change again!
Also, you will be on probation until your tourist visa expires. By that time, they can perhaps afford to dismiss you, saving on salary (perhaps pocketing your monthly pay for that month) and airfare!

GIve another school a chance and see how the two of them compare!
Why should you want to go to Xuzhou of all places?

MyTurnNow · Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 860 Location: Outer Shanghai

OK, I'll join the chorus here...

1) 5000 RMB for 25 classroom a week really bites. Even for a university.

2) I strongly agree that if you press ahead with this you'll probably be jettisoned (and yes, possibly deprived of salary) at the earliest opportunity. It's fun to mention the word "contract" to a Chinese person, just for the peals of derisive laughter it provokes. ('Course, a lot of Western-owned schools get a pretty good laugh out of it, too...)

3) I live in Jiangsu province currently (down in the end fittin' for decent folks to live in) and I have an even lower opinion of XuZhou than the other posters. The tombs will provide, oh, maybe an hour or two of entertainment value. This town is bleak oblivion. Dirty, ugly, stank. It's Nowhere.

Shop around. There's better to be had. Try http://www.thatsshanghai.com

MT