Job Discussion Forums

Butterfly Joe · Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 4

I'm heading over to Suzhou in the fall to get my TEFL certification at the Boland School, and after that I will be looking for a job right away. I'm basically trying to decide which cities I should look at when job hunting, and was hoping some of you with more knowledge of the area could help.

do not have a college degree or teaching experience

job hunting in the middle of a school semester

a little concerned about pollution

traditional kung fu school (not wushu)

be able to meet people and spend a lot of time outdoors

internet access

public transportation

bicycles sound more fun

not really in it for the money

internet gaming cafes

learn chinese, experience a different life, have a great time

Since I will be lucky enough to be right next to Shanghai when I take the TEFL course, I will definitely be checking it out (and Suzhou, naturally). I'm hoping my poor resume doesn't hold me back too much, but I'm also not sure if such a large city is what I'm looking for... I won't have the opportunity to visit any other cities before finding a job, and since I will be on a very limited budget until I am actually working, not to mention that I'll be experiencing the city I move to for the first time when/if I find a job (unless its Shanghai or Suzhou), I really need advice from those of you who know what some of the different cities are like!

So, which cities can you recommend? I have found Virtual Tourist to be really helpful in getting some opinions on the different cities, but I really don't know where to begin... I need to narrow down my choices and do some real research to get ready for this trip!

Please don't exclude any cities from your recommendations if you really love it there, just please explain why you like it and which items on my list are appliable/conflicting. What I really want to know is why you love the place you live, and why, based on my interests, I might love it too.

Any advice, no matter how small, would be appreciated beyond belief.

Old Dog · Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 564 Location: China

Read "Interesting Cities". The oracle has spoken there and provided a what-may-prove-to-be-useful-and-interesting Cook's tour of China guide books.

Butterfly Joe · Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 4

Thanks, I'll check out that thread

anthyp · Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 1320 Location: Chicago, IL USA

Butterfly Joe · Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 4

This is contradictory to the information I received from the Boland school. They assured me that a BA was not a requirement. Can you point me in the right direction towards some facts about this?

DistantRelative · Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 367 Location: Shaanxi/Xian

Joe,

What anthyp says about the legality may indeed be true, but the fact is this regulation about the BA is constantly overlooked by the Chinese Government. They do so because they know if they enforced it they would never get enough Foriegn Teachers to come here and work. So don't be discouraged or disuaded.

The fact is your friendly personality will carry you far here in China.

As to the rest of your questions? Sorry I can't answer them, I haven't gotten around enough but from what I have seen of China thus far it is a wonderful country and I wish you all the best during your time spent here.

Respectfully,

Shawn

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

Joe, I tried answering your PM but, on occasion, the messages just sit in my outbox and are never delivered; so here it goes.

I think you would be very happy in Haikou. It does get very hot here in the summer but no hotter, believe it or not, than in many of the northern cities. I was in Shenyang last summer and there was no significant difference in temperatures: just humidity (it's a lot more humid down here because we are surrounded by water).

My only concern is that you don't have a bachelor's degree and that will make it virtually impossible for you to find decent work on Hainan Island (as the provincial leaders here do rigorously enforce the minimum requirements). I recently heard of a relatively new school that attempted to skirt the law by sub-contracting foreign teachers from a neighboring school (one that is licensed to hire foreign teachers). Apparently, the PSB is there all of the time and classes are constantly being cancelled. From what my friends tell me, I doubt it will survive. (I heard through the grapevine that there are a couple of people secretly and nervously working here at private schools with fake degrees. However, if they were to be found out, they would certainly be fired and most likely deported.) What Anthyp wrote is entirely correct and, as DistantRelative pointed out, in some provinces, the police do record receipt of your "degree" for a fee (whether or not you want to risk that is entirely up to you but you will have no choice but to work here illegally, i.e., either with an F-Visa, or with a Z-Visa based on a forged degree - either physically produced or treated as such by the PSB; those are your only two options if you decide to teach in China without a degree).

The truth of the matter is, to find a suitable (reasonable) job on Hainan Island with good working conditions and fair treatment, you really do need a degree (not to mention that is the only legal way to do it).

Doc

PS. TEFL programs and recruiters are not the most reliable sources of information about what is required to legally teach in China.

Butterfly Joe · Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Posts: 4

Thanks for the advice. After giving it quite a lot of thought, I'm really considering finishing out my degree. It sounds like it will really be a lot more useful to have one than I thought, and I know it is essential if I want to teach somewhere else like Japan or Taiwan.

So, any BA degree will do, right? I was thinking about political science =P

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

Babala · Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan

Hey BJ,
I live in Jiangsu province and know of at least 8 foreign teachers who have a valid Z visa who don't have a BA. They all have the TESOL degree. You can get a legal job without your degree. Don't worry.

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

Babala · Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan

I have read all the posting on this site saying about how China requires a BA to be able to get a Z visa. I have also read people stating that this is still a yet to be enforced law. Let's stop to consider that regulations differ from province to province. I hear people saying to Newbies that is okay to come over on a tourist visa and the school will change it when you get there. In Jiangsu, this is no longer the case. You can no longer change a tourist visa into a work visa. You must arrive on a Z visa if you want to teach. I myself refused to come to China unless a Z visa was provided for me before leaving Canada. I will be happy to Pm you TD and give you a list of schools that are legal to hire FT's and have hired FT's without BA's. I noticed that BJ also stated that the Boland school told him a BA was not necessary and yet I didn't see you writing how irresponsible they were.

Babala · Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan

Small note:

I meant to say that province to province it may differ in "enforcing" the BA requirement. I do know that all over China has it.

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

Indiana Jones · Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:11 am Post subject:

I have a 2-year Diploma of Arts: Professional Writing & Editing. I spent 4 years part-time studying the structure of the english language.

Yet someone with a 3-year Bachelor's Degree in a field that has nothing to do with the english language is more qualified to teach english than I am?

The fact that people are getting jobs teaching english solely on the basis of holding a 3-year Degree is frightening. I know people who dragged their arses through uni, hardly did any work, learned absolutely nothing, yet after 3-years got a Degree. If you ask them what they learned in their three years of uni, they'd struggle to come up with an answer -- yet they're qualified to teach english because they have a degree!

Your 3-year Degree in Thumb-Twiddling does not make you more qualified to teach english than those with qualifications that took two years or less. It also does not mean that only a Degree holder should qualify for work. This is b.s.

If you don't have a degree, you CAN find work in China, Japan etc. Especially if your qualifications are in the field of the english language. Especially if you have a TESOL qualiication. Especially if you are enthusiastic about teaching conversational english.

In Japan for instance you can apply for the Instructor's Visa (introduced September 2004 to cater for this very scenario of quality english teachers missing out because they don't have 3-year degrees). All you need is to find a job and if your application is good enough, they'll arrange the visa for you. With the Visa, you are LEGALLY allowed to teach conversational english.

The 3-year Degree requirement is not written in stone -- it's a guideline and Immigration reserves the right to make exceptions at any time.

Personally, I think Japan, China, etc are finally beginning to realise that a 3-year Degree doesn't guarantee someone is a good english teacher ....

If you want to teach english in China or Japan -- get your TESOL certification and APPLY FOR JOBS with enthusiasm and sincerity. If there's a will, there's a way -- and Chinese employers will appreciate you more.