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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: Advice from a fool |
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Nothing to say.
Last edited by william wallace on Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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limits601
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 106 Location: right here ! Cant you see me ?
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent tid bit.
:+) |
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Norman Bethune
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 731
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Advice from a fool |
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william wallace wrote: |
So, I suggest learning chinese as a major aim, and not to focus on being the best english teacher.China will always continue to struggle with ALL foreign languages.As I was told by someone in chinese management 2 years ago,"don't pressure them to learn english...they're here to relax and learn a bit".I guess I took ESL too seriously-----dui bu qi  |
Judging from students attitudes (except those who state openly they want to study/emigrate/travel abroad), the last paragragh sums up how most see English classes. The "Have fun, we don't need to know this anyhow, 'cause everyone speaks Chinese in China" attitude is pervasive.
One question I have asked myself recently is this:
As Ft's aren't we in some way traitors to our homelands? We are teaching English so that future business people can use it as a tool to further the development of the Chinese economy by exporting cheap goods and importing capital, factories, and the jobs with them from the west. Perhaps at the expense of the future economies of our homelands, we currently make a few RMB and think we have it good.
But what of the future? American and European capitalists only care about profit. Closing down a manufacturing plant and laying off workers in the West and moving a factory to China means nothing to them if it will boster their profits.
William, maybe you are on to something. All of us who have taken teaching as our first priority should reexamine that aim. If we are going to be traitors, we better learn the language...our new masters will expect it, if not demand it. |
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Jolly

Joined: 12 Apr 2004 Posts: 202
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Advice from a fool |
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william wallace wrote: |
When I started teaching ESL in Beijing 10 years ago the motto at that particular school was "Speak English Only!"(( for Chinese students) and with the pouty lips whinning "I have no chance to speak english" I took that at face value. It lead me to ONLY speak english in class,and the 10,000 dinners I was taken to ,I would ONLY speak english .Looking back now, I see it was a huge mistake on my part.10,9,8 years ago if I had learnt chinese I could have gone into some foreign ventures(nice packages back then too!), but whatever....today I would have more opportunities.I tried my best to eliminate all chinese coversation,translation when they were with me... the .need for better paraphrasing(circumlocution etc...) refrain from injecting chinese grammar into english sentences.Meanwhile, I would be alienated outside of the students context(wait staff,taxi drivers ..etc..etc..)
Then I found myself at various times being among the FOREIGN teaching staff, the only native english speaker.When I mean "native" I'm not talking of the nuances of "somethin" instead of "something" ; I'm talking about language band levels.I've taught with a Nigerian who was at best band 6,Italian lawyer(hobby???) who was a band 5(I taught Italians 11 years ago), Russians,Kzakistanian,Indian.....Some were good,some were very bad-But, they could communicate with the class-IN CHINESE!!
So, I suggest learning chinese as a major aim, and not to focus on being the best english teacher.China will always continue to struggle with ALL foreign languages.As I was told by someone in chinese management 2 years ago,"don't pressure them to learn english...they're here to relax and learn a bit".I guess I took ESL too seriously-----dui bu qi  |
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OK but what if you're not interested in learning Chinese? I agree with you, though, 10 years is a long time to spend in a country and not learn the language. However, I can't agree with you about speaking Chinese in the classroom. That's not being fair to the students. After all, you're not in China just to look out for #1 are you?
I'm sorry you're disappointed in yourself. Please don't be. It's water under the bridge now. You sound as if you have a lot going for you!
Last edited by Jolly on Sun May 01, 2005 2:44 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:49 am Post subject: |
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I believe Chinese students who complain that they "don't have a chance at speaking English" are under the same illusion as many FTs: why should Chinese learn English in the first place?Certainly NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF DOING CHITCHATS - but as a patriotic duty to help their country lift itself to a higher level of intellectual and cultural level by learning from the more advanced societies. Investing in a foreign language on such a scale is a huge outlay, and China cannot afford to waste their funds on useless oral English fluency when speakers don't even have any intellectual maturity to use it. In this way, the current English-speaking mania is a symptom of a deep-rooted malaise and of misunderstandings and misprioritisations. |
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Brian Caulfield
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 1247 Location: China
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Learning Chinese is important so that you can understand the errors of transfer the students make . When the students say things like "Your mother , he's OK now ?" they are making an error of transfer .
Where I live the foreign companies all use English to communicate with their employees . It is todays lingua franca .
My beef with China is not about the loss of jobs in the west , but the eploitation of farmers in China and the rest of the world . The World Trade Organization wants all governments to stop supporting farmers and let the price of commodities work themselves out in free trade . But China has deliberately kept the price of food down to encourage the farmer to leave their land and take a job in a factory . This plays havoc on rice farmers in South Korea and Japan . |
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