Job Discussion Forums

[johnosigo]

Hello all,

Thanks for a great forum for interesting discussion.

Firstly, sorry to bore you all. This is another - I am thinking of going to China, but have another job, what should I do - should I go to China thread.

I am a 31 year old working on a 6 month contract with the Ontario government as a building inspector and I am already getting tired of the 9-5 grind. Also terrified in one way that this will turn full-time and I will be a lifer there. Not that there is anything wrong with a full-time job these days.

I graduated from teachers college in '96 majoring in elemetary teaching, hated the kids at the time. Took a graphic design course and wanted to get into Instructional Design but the jobs are just not there. So now I have 2 degrees, 1 college diploma and kind of fell into a gov't job where they pay me $35,000 a year to inspect houses. After almost 2 months it's all a complete bore.

I have only travelled to Italy and Austria on vacation, and various places in Canada and the US. Never been to China, only read books and articles about it.

Any advice on leaving the comforts of job security to travel around Asia?
Am I totally nuts leaving?
Am I totally naive about the expectations and what I will encounter when I get there?
Do I just need one of you in this forum to tell me to "shut the hell up, punk, you have a government job , stop complaining!"

Thanks in advance for your help and guidance. Go easy on me please, it's my second new post!

John

[SeaLawyer]

John,

It sounds like your motivations are boredom and wanderlust.
China would not be a good answer for me if I were you.
I would secure my cushy full-time permanent government job and then satisfy my wanderlust on my vacations.
I would fight the boredom with continuing education that was goal directed to move me into a managerial position in a field in the government sector that I reasoned would not be too boring.
Maybe you could plan a flashy trip to the 2008 Olympics and supplement it with visits to selected cities.
But, you are you and I am me.
Best of luck in your considerations.

[shenyanggerry]

Stay with your job or find another one! China is great for people in two stages of life - just out of school or retired. The pay scale here is great for living in China. It's way too low to ever save for retirement. You are entering your prime earning years. This is the time to stash money away for a comfortable old age.

If you want to teach abroad, go somewhere that pays serious money, not to China. China is a luxury you can't afford at your age and stage.

[johnosigo]

Thank you SeaLawyer and shenyanggerry for your replies.

I will continue to go over the pros and cons and make a decision soon. Thanks for the advice and take care.

JOhn

[Voldermort]

I know exactly how you feel Johno.. Back home I too drifted from one job to another, city to city, looking for that place I could just settle and call my home. One day I decided to take a break from it and come to China for a year or two, then to go back and hopefuly look at things in a different shade.

As it happens, I found my home here in China. This is where I feel happy, this is my home. I will stay here for the rest of my life now and only travel home for vacation.

If you plan to come to China, don't burn your bridges. Try to secure a job for your return, one day you may need it.

[fat tony]

hey voldermort, how is changchun as a place to live? I'm heading to china soon and trying to gleam as much info as possible on places i might like to live. Have you been to the ski fields around there?

did you ever play soul calibur on the sega dreamcast? there was a really freaky character called voldo. i think of him every time i see one of your posts.

[Roger]

I am beginning to feel Dave Sperling should hire a lifestyle consultant to answer queries such as the one by the OP in this thread!

[tradinup]

John,

I quit a government job likes yours 3 months ago, I was a liquor store clerk in BC and made about $32,000. If we want to talk about money then we should do it properly, ie. let's not talk about our gross salaries (which are irrelevant, what you net is much more important. I'm 23 but I don't think the age issue is relevant, we should just stick to the numbers.

In China you will earn a lower gross amount but you will pay less taxes (maybe 6%) and during private tutoring, etc. you will not be paying any. So you should try to compare net salaries. Also in China your costs will be lower and you may be able to save more, but probably not. I am aware of the benefits of government jobs, and if you are paying off a house then that is another consideration.

But if you are a graduate of teacher's college and want to earn an equivalent salary (or maybe higher) think Japan, Hong Kong, maybe Korea... Compare your after-tax salaries, and your estimated expenses in each city, then make a choice. You can join the NET in Hong Kong with your qualifications and make big bucks possibly, but personally I hate Hong Kong.

But I think money isn't everything; I hated what I was doing before and I love working in China!

[goman72]

I have read this posting with GREAT INTEREST as I too am in a government job (in Australia) but the only differences are that:

I am a permanent public servant (and can apply for 12 months Leave With Out Pay - LWOP), 1 year older than you (32 years old) and actually ENJOY my job very much, I earn AUS $48K a year with no mortgage. However, last year I did a CELTA and have not yet had an opportunity to go overseas to teach and am "curious" to at least try it out to see if ESL/EFL is really for me...

...My comfortable life 'down under' is about to change as I am 5 weeks away from signing a contract with a Chinese University to teach English for 10 months (starting late August 2005). I say 5 weeks because I also went for an interview for the JET (Japan) and am waiting to hear from them too...

And here lies my dilemma.

Do I take my precious 12 months LWOP to just sit next to a teacher in Japan correcting his/her pronunciation and attend a few extra-curricular activities as an "ambassador" to my country? (Australia) and receive no real quality ESL experience at the end of it, but make a bundle of cash to take home with me to Aussie (if I am careful enough to save)...

OR

Go to this Chinese University, have my own class(es), teach 20+ hrs a week, get paid overtime - on time - pay not that great - but then costs are low anyway, get feedback and positive suggestions for improving my teaching, have motivated (or semi-motivated) students, and at the end of my 10 months, have the 800 hrs needed/required in Australia to be able to teach ESL/EFL in my home country should I so desire...

???

Any comments are GRATEFULLY appreciated as I am getting confused and could do with a few tips...





...Maybe i should ask for Dave's Lifestyle Consultant !!??

[johnosigo]

hi tradinup

I am not necessarily looking for big money, just enough to live, save a bit and experience the world. Being a civil servant is killing me these days.
You should read some Kafka if you havnt already. he was a civil servant who wrote about the absurdity of it all.

and Voldermort

congrats on finding a place where you are happy and fulfilled a bit. thanks
Not knowing if I will have a job when I come back could be a problem. Im sure there is a cubicle out there somewhere.

John

[deezy]

goman72

Have you checked the ESL/EFL market in Australia? And the pay? Unless it's different in NSW, in Vic you need Cert IV in Assessment and Workplace Training as a minimum before you work at a TAFE,and a degree in 99% of places. You probably have a degree so you'd have a good chance of getting an ESL job when you returned after 10 months teaching. But you would never ever in a million years get the equivalent pay to the pay you are used to.

You need to think about what YOU want out of this... financial gain, or self-actualisation. I was earning $300 a day as an HR consultant but I came to China because it's something I always wanted to do, and didn't want to sit in my rocking chair harbouring regrets for things not done, risks not taken.

Do what you 'gut' tells you. Good luck.

[millie]

Hello Goman72,

I think you misunderstand the nature of the teacher’s assistant in the JET scheme. They are there to help with Japanese instructions and organisation, not to teach as such.
Next, most westerners would find the quality of life in Japan far far superior to that in China – it really is not a comparison in my opinion.
You could extend this to the general amenities and many of the personal habits and behaviours of the people of the respective nations too.

However, do not be too certain that you will save a “bundle of cash” in Japan as the cost of living is certainly much higher than in Oz.

Still you need to compare that to the AUD$1,000 a month or less you will get in China which you may find will disappear rather quickly when you go on holidays.

Next, I think you are rather miscued as to what will happen when you teach in a Chinese uni. With very few exceptions, foreign teachers are window dressing and are teaching in a vacuum with no syllabus or direction. Yes, I know many people take what that do quite seriously and work conscientiously in the situation as they find it but Sydney Uni. it certainly is not

[Norman Bethune]

[Roger]

[
And here lies my dilemma.
OR

Go to this Chinese University, have my own class(es), teach 20+ hrs a week, get paid overtime - on time - pay not that great - but then costs are low anyway, get feedback and positive suggestions for improving my teaching, have motivated (or semi-motivated) students, and at the end of my 10 months, have the 800 hrs needed/required in Australia to be able to teach ESL/EFL in my home country should I so desire...

???

Any comments are GRATEFULLY appreciated as I am getting confused and could do with a few tips...

...Maybe i should ask for Dave's Lifestyle Consultant !!??[/quote]

I think you are deluding yourself into believing your Chinese students will honour and respect you, appreciate your knowledge and wisdom and recommend you to the school's masters, their parents and to your future employers. Forget all that!

You are frirst of all a figurehead, a white face to attract local students who pay extra tuition fees to be in a class supervised or run by this white face. You are hardly likely to be working as a "teacher".

It may be worthwhile to gather such insights and experience China for a year; but longer than that, and you will feel it is a very repetitive and routine life over here, with far fewer bonuses to compensate you for hardships than you might get back home.
Spare time activities? Travel? You will soon see that money doesn't buy you a lot of happiness here. Not even enough tourist kilometers to and in the distant provinces of this country.

[tradinup]

Norman Bethune must be psychic, as he was able to derive such a large amount of information (B.S.) from a relatively simple post. I must have missed the part where he is not cut out for China, just because he works in a government job. Try asking him some questions before you come up with all the answers.

Johno, I wanted to come to China too, but recognized that initially it will be a substantial paycut. (Though, after things start rolling here with extra jobs, it may not be so much of a paycut) The way I justified the move was, with my degree, I do not think it will be that difficult to replace the prior income level. I think with your qualifications it is not very difficult for you to at least match your old income, should you need to return to Canada.

Obviously it is not a vacation here, as other posters have mentioned, but I don't see why you are naive to this fact, though others seem to feel you are.