|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
sifu_sensei
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject: Prospects with a Doctorate or PhD |
 |
|
Hi
I'm a 36-year-old teacher teacher with 12 years' EFL experience in France, Thailand and the Middle East. I have worked in language schools, universities and colleges of higher education and have a Masters in Ed Tech and ELT, an RSA TEFL cert and a Trinity TESOL diploma.
Although I'm not ready to work in Japan yet, I plan to apply for a post at a Japanese university in a few years. I'm currently in the process of applying to do a doctoral degree part-time, which will take about 5-6 years. One option is a PhD (with an ELT and Ed Tech focus) through Manchester University in the UK, the other is a Doctor of Applied Linguistics program through Macquarie in Australia. The latter is a professional doctorate, not a PhD.
My question is whether the 2 qualifications would be treated equally in Japan if I were to apply for a position at a university. By the time I've completed either program, I would expect to have met the publishing requirements that normally appear in job advertisements, but I would like to check whether universities in Japan would have a preference for a PhD or a professional doctorate, or whether either would be ok.
Thanks in advance for any help or advice you might be able to give. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Prospects with a Doctorate or PhD |
|
|
| While either would probably be fine, if your ultimate goal is a long-term position at a Japanese university, I'd go for the PhD. The 'professional doctorate' doesn't fit neatly into any of the categories a Japanese hiring committee is looking for--in my experience, momentary confusion on the part of a Japanese hiring committee often becomes an excuse for rejecting the candidate. After all, they're getting 50-100 candidates for each position--many, increasingly, with PhDs, publications, and equally impressive resumes. In this very competitive market, why take the risk that a lazy committee--the rule, not the exception--will turn you down? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sifu_sensei
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:01 am Post subject: Doctor of Education??? |
|
|
Hi Taikibansei
Thanks for your reply. I was also wondering if the Doctor of Education qualification is also viewed as not fitting neatly into the Japanese requirements. As this is becoming more popular than a PhD for many in the EFL world, is it not becoming more widely accepted in Japan?
Thanks again for your previous reply. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Doctor of Education??? |
|
|
| sifu_sensei wrote: |
Hi Taikibansei
Thanks for your reply. I was also wondering if the Doctor of Education qualification is also viewed as not fitting neatly into the Japanese requirements. As this is becoming more popular than a PhD for many in the EFL world, is it not becoming more widely accepted in Japan?
Thanks again for your previous reply. |
Sifu, just myy two cents worth
Taikibansei has a PhD though Im not sure what in ( teaching writing I think) and I am currently doing a PhD in Applied Linguistics with a British university. I have told my school I am doing a PhD and now currently on residency in the UK. I know about the Mcquarie degree and its basically the same.
For the most part I dont think universities here will really care whether you have a D. Ed or a Phd or Applied linguistics or whatever. FWIW Temple University offers a D.Ed in Japan and many teachers here have a D.Ed from there. Its just academic snobbery I think to say one is 'better' than the other.
2nd, not all of the Japanese professors at the universities hiring you will have Phds. Taikibansei was more qualified than many of them, and many only have Masters degrees and no doctorate. They only ask for a doctorate as they want the most 'qualified' foreign candidate and it cuts down on the list of potential applicants.
I think probably of all the people that apply for full time university jobs only 5 or 10% have a PhD, as not many have them, and the degree is more 'status' than anything else. They look more for publications, teaching experience than what PhD you have. As long as its related they dont worry too much if its 'professional' or not.
As a full time teacher at a university chances are if you have no teaching experience you will be teaching oral communication classes, where a PhD is unnecessary. Even much of the stuff in a Masters degree I dont use. The PhD is nice to have for knowledge sake, but most of it is irrelevant to the actual job you do which is speaking and conversation class.
Lastly, not all people with phDs get hired. Some people think they are 'too good' for speaking classes or they think they should be 'lecturing' like they do in the US but teaching TEFL here does not lend itself to a lecture style, teacher centered format. They would rather do research etc than teach freshman classes
PhD degrees are essentially research, while the actual classes will be more like conversation classes, with some TOEIC or writing classes thrown in. Im not too sure that universities care what your research or PhD is in, as long as you do your publications and teach your classes well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sifu_sensei
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi PaulH
Thanks for your reply, which is very informative. I agree with you on the 'academic snobbery' point. The Macquarie doctorate is not a PhD, but as you can end up doing research training, coursework and an 80,000 word thesis, it's a PhD by another name.
I realise that the PhD or doctorate isn't likely to make me a better teacher in a practical sense, but it does, as you say add, to your credibility in the eyes of a university. I have practical teaching qualifications and plenty of experience, but I'm going to do the PhD due to personal interest as well as for career reasons. I enjoy teaching but I'd like to get into research, too.
Are you doing your PhD with Birmingham or Swansea by any chance?
Good luck with your PhD and thanks again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Doctor of Education??? |
|
|
| Quote: |
| For the most part I dont think universities here will really care whether you have a D. Ed or a Phd or Applied linguistics or whatever. FWIW Temple University offers a D.Ed in Japan and many teachers here have a D.Ed from there. Its just academic snobbery I think to say one is 'better' than the other. |
Don't get me wrong either--I certainly wasn't arguing that one degree is somehow 'better' than another.
I've been on 5 university search committees in my life--two in Japan, and three in the States. In my experience, search committees choose the darnest things to disqualify for--e.g., a very qualified foreign candidate with an MA (American literature) and an MFA (fiction) was disqualified for a so-called 'American literature' position because several of the Japanese faculty had never heard of the MFA degree (of course, the position only called for 'an MA in literature and EFL experience,' both of which the candidate clearly had...).
Hence, my point was that, if you are applying to a Japanese university, it's often best to give them exactly what they want--remembering always that the hiring committees are usually made up of non-native speakers who, at best, have spent a semester or year abroad 'roughing it.' In my experience, these committees are often very conservative, operating under intense pressure not to make a hiring mistake (e.g., choosing someone with a false degree, plagiarized research, advanced schizophrenia, etc.) that will later embarrass the university.
For this reason, if confronted with, say, five finalists with otherwise equal credentials, they'll go first with someone they know (or who is recommended by someone they personally know). If they don't know any of the finalists in this way, they'll go with the one with the degree from the most recognizable university (which is why you see a lot of foreign faculty from pretty prominent universities hired--despite having degrees with no relevance to what they're ostensibly teaching.) And frankly, if neither of the above are applicable, I'd argue that 6 out of 10 times they'll go for the most recognizable (e.g., not necessarily most applicable) degree.
Hope this makes more sense....
| Quote: |
| 2nd, not all of the Japanese professors at the universities hiring you will have Phds. Taikibansei was more qualified than many of them, and many only have Masters degrees and no doctorate. They only ask for a doctorate as they want the most 'qualified' foreign candidate and it cuts down on the list of potential applicants. |
Actually, the head of the English department where I was (a national university, by the way) only had a BA. Of course, he was also the Japanese faculty most incessantly--indeed, whiningly--critical of the foreign staff's lack of academic 'qualifications.'
Still, Paul's point remains quite valid--most of your Japanese colleagues will have at best an MA.
| Quote: |
| As a full time teacher at a university chances are if you have no teaching experience you will be teaching oral communication classes, where a PhD is unnecessary. Even much of the stuff in a Masters degree I dont use. The PhD is nice to have for knowledge sake, but most of it is irrelevant to the actual job you do which is speaking and conversation class. |
I agree 100%. There's no reason to ask for the PhD--or even an MA--when you consider what you'll often be teaching. I've known pretty prominent PhDs, ostensibly hired to teach in their research area, freaking out when they find out that their main teaching duty is to somehow manage English conversation classes...filled with 20-50 unmotivated students.
Still, I believe Paul is leaving out the main reason why PhDs are preferred more and more now for F/T positions--the perceived ability to better rewrite/edit the 'English' prose of their Japanese colleagues. Time and again, I was told that this was a major reason I was hired--my editing and publishing record suggested I'd be a great fit for the aspiring 'scholars' there. Heck, my first three years, I spent more time writing my colleague's work than with teaching.... 
| Quote: |
| Taikibansei has a PhD though Im not sure what in ( teaching writing I think) |
MA (TESOL), MFA (Poetry), PhD (Comp/Writing)--proving only that I'm an edjumicated idiot....  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Doctor of Education??? |
|
|
| sifu_sensei wrote: |
Hi Taikibansei
Thanks for your reply. I was also wondering if the Doctor of Education qualification is also viewed as not fitting neatly into the Japanese requirements. As this is becoming more popular than a PhD for many in the EFL world, is it not becoming more widely accepted in Japan?
Thanks again for your previous reply. |
At least at the two Japanese universities I've worked at, Japanese faculty (though not in the English department) with D.Eds. also had been hired in the recent past, making that degree also 'okay.'
Finally, a simple rule of thumb when trying to get hired at a Japanese university--before applying, check out the backgrounds of your colleagues-to-be. Even if none have a PhD/D.Ed (or whatever), if at least some of them have degrees from overseas universities, you should be fine--regardless of the exact wording of your degree. However, if none have either a PhD or overseas experience, then you should assume they know little to nothing (pm me for numerous bizarre anecdotes) about the academic world outside of Japan (indeed, outside of their particular campus), and act accordingly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sifu_sensei
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Taikibansei. Really useful information again.
Could I ask a follow-up question, please?
If I had a PhD or doctorate and some refereed publications, and spoke basic Japanese, do you think I'd be able to get a job at a university even if I'd never worked in Japan, or would that be pushing it?
Thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sifu_sensei wrote: |
Are you doing your PhD with Birmingham or Swansea by any chance?
Good luck with your PhD and thanks again. |
I am at Birmingham. I have just spent 3 weeks on the main campus, most of it cooped up in the library doing study. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sifu_sensei wrote: |
Thanks Taikibansei. Really useful information again.
Could I ask a follow-up question, please?
If I had a PhD or doctorate and some refereed publications, and spoke basic Japanese, do you think I'd be able to get a job at a university even if I'd never worked in Japan, or would that be pushing it?
Thanks |
I'd say yes. However, note again the hiring 'hierarchy' I mentioned above--the fact that you'd never worked in Japan would potentially cause some problems, in that you'd have no local track record to 'prove' your hiring would not become a 'mistake' later. (Not being readily available for an interview would potentially cause problems as well.)
Still, very occasionally, Japanese universities offer 1-year F/T positions exclusively to people without teaching experience in Japan. While many of these positions go to people whose schools have connections (e.g., a sister-school relationship) with a particular Japanese university, invariably a couple of positions each year will be completely open. Oftentimes, these latter positions will be advertised on the MLA and Chronicle job lists--just don't apply at the oft-advertised 'Nagoya University of Commerce and Business'--a simply horrible place to work, with an insane--even racist--contract..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sifu_sensei wrote: |
Thanks Taikibansei. Really useful information again.
Could I ask a follow-up question, please?
If I had a PhD or doctorate and some refereed publications, and spoke basic Japanese, do you think I'd be able to get a job at a university even if I'd never worked in Japan, or would that be pushing it?
Thanks |
Sifu
I would have to mail you privately, but there is a recent article by two guys who write about what universities look for. There are over 700 4 year colleges in Japan and about 200 junior colleges. Not all have the same criteria for hiring.
Offhand, of 50 universities they applied to between them, about 10% wanted a phd, about half explicitly asked for publications. Many now ask for conversational Japanese though many do not require or expect Japanese(you may have to attend faculty meetings even though you dont understand the language well, and deal with office hours and the student office etc) . Many jobs do not specifically require japanese ability as you are hired for your TEFL and English skills. Smaller schools may have less English speakers and often no secretaries and office staff in the student office speaks English.
I applied for FT jobs last year and the year before, about 30 or 40 CVs went out each time. There were guys with PhDs and publications. My feeling is its a lottery when applying for jobs. One job I got on the shortlist and missed out and they later told me it was because i worked at a national university which was higher in status though I had all the qualifications. Some guys have more publications (I know one guy with over 25, about 10-15 are referreed)
Getting jobs is a combination of timing connections, and LUCK. Knowing people, getting a referral, having someone on the committee who is interested in your area (I got hired as I had a publication on testing, and thats what they asked me in the interview). You have to constantly network, meet people, keep your CV up to date, work on publications, work on your Japanese. If you get complacent you can lose out. The phD is not so you can use it in class but simply to get an interview in some cases. I know Aoyama Gakuin (regularly) asks for PhDs for part time teachers. They must never get any nibbles as they are always advertising.
You may be required to sit through an interview with 6 professors in front of you and the interview is half in Japanese. Not all are like that but some are, esp if you teach non-English majors.
One last point, if you have a PhD it means they have to pay you more and many universities are looking to pare costs as student rolls are dropping. They can get a guy with a Masters and publications and pay him 2 million yen a year less than a guy with a PhD. Salaries are based on age, number of years of experience and a 40 year old foreigner with a PhD may sometimes be too expensive for some universities.
You could get a job with the above qualifications, but keep in mind 30 guys (80% who apply are men) are chasing after the same job you are. You have to be in Japan for an interview, have experience teaching Japanese students, maybe get your foot in the door somewhere part time.
Full time jobs often open up at schools where teachers work part time and you hear about them. Jobs in the TLT magazine have a lot of responses as they are in English and the JRECIN site, mainly in Japanese has many as well, but fewer applicants overall, odds are better as competition is less. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
