Job Discussion Forums

[7969]

from my students workbook (completed in the class with a chinese teacher):

Steve spent as much time as he ________ over his lessons.
a. could to go b. could going

answers c and d are irrelevant since the question surrounded these two possibilities.

i told my students that (a) is correct since, in english we never say "could" + an "ing" verb (at least in this example), but using can (could) + infinitive is possible. i have murphy's grammar handbook, and can + infinitive is listed, but it says nothing about "could" + verb + ing. does this mean the latter, by its exclusion from the handbook, isnt possible?

if (a) is correct, is it also correct to say that there's a pause (comma) after could?

this is important, since the chinese teacher gives them one answer and i give them another. the chinese teacher often insists that they're right.

[7969]

a better way to illustrate my problem might be this:

steve spent as much time as he could, going over his lessons.
steve spent as much time as he could, to go over his lessons.

after thinking about it, it seems that both answers might be ok.

any opinions?

[Old Dog]

Curses 7969, I had a long explanation drafted and it disappeared when I "submitted". I'll try again.

[Old Dog]

7969, I think the infinitive construction you are thinking of is the infinitive of purpose, e.g. He saved money to give to the poor. Just off the top of my head and without taking the trouble to find a grammar book, I think the infinitive of purpose will suggest a future intention.

In the example you gave earlier, I don't think there was any indiction of future intention - Steve spent as much time as he could going over his homework (or whatever it was). Here the time indicated is totally past - and I guess it is for this reason that I would feel uncomfortable writing "Steve spent as much time as he could to go over his workwork". It just sounds very awkward to me. Its logic doesn't seem right - hence I'd find another way of saying what I meant.

But, as I say, I'm rusty on these things and someone else may see things differently.

I've just had two classes and I asked one of them which of the alternatives you proposed they would use. Virtually all of them chose "could going". (It sounds so awful written in this isolated form - but, for me, it would be the answer to choose.)

[rickinbeijing]

7969,

Part of me didn't want to respond because the tempests in the proverbial teapots over grammar usage in Chinese EFL classes makes me shudder. I mean--and I'm sure you agree--it's rather sad how much time and attention is devoted to such trivial matters in the grander scheme of learning to communicate in English.

Not surprisingly, your Chinese teacher takes an all-too-common and arrogant stance: he (or she) knows better! I once asked the chief editor of a major Chinese publishing house why she bothered to hire me since she would disagree with me after asking me which form to use, etc.

Why not throw her a curve ball and insist both are acceptable. She won't be able to deal with that. What? Two choices? Incidentally, I've come across both usages in reputable textbooks.

Bring her down from an either-or proposition. I have encountered more than a few questions on the college entrance exam wherein ALL the answer choices were incorrect. So it is a matter of finding the least egregious choice.

Good luck. Remember: grammar is good wine before it's time.

[rickinbeijing]

I'm with Old Dog, or he is chasing my heels. I'd go with "could going" too.
I still think, however, it would be fun to choose both, but then I'm being a bit sadistic here.

[Madmaxola]

You're not looking at the syntax right.

Could does not bhind with to go or going,
could is part of the the "time" phrase, "as much time as he could" - it does not bind with going or to go.

You can shorten the phrase and see the whole sentence as "Steve spent time going over the test" and "Steve spent time to go over the test"

And for most people, you can say say a past main verb + progressive participle, and also a past main verb + infinitive - it just has different aspect meanings.

[Brian Caulfield]

You got to stay clear of this can of worms . The Chinese English teacher thinks English is a science that we the native speakers don't know . I guess the word they should use is appropriate . Which sentence is more appropriate .
The whole thing gives me a chuckle because I know they are making work for me . The Chinese student get turned off by English and must pay me for the chance to learn English .

[Old Dog]

7969, I was a bit lazy yesterday and I'm still lazy to the extent that I've not bothered consulting any textbooks; however, for what it's worth, here's my (as opposed to "the") analysis:

1. Tom spent as much time going over his lessons - Principal Clause
2 as - conjunction - as he could (spend) - Adverbial Clause of Degree modifying "as much".

The verbal component of the adverbial clause consists of the compound, the modal "could" + ("spend") (reverting to its infinitive form when linked to a modal).

"Going", of course, is part of the phrasal verb, "to go over". It is transitive and here takes "lessons" as its object. "Going over his lessons" forms a participial phrase - and I would think of it has having an adverbial ("manner") function explaining how he spent his time.

However, having written all of that, I decided to do a Google check and I find this:

[latefordinner]

Madmaxola:

[Jolly]

[7969]

thanks to all for the replies here.

rick, i did in fact go back to that class and tell them that i thought both ansers were acceptable. now that might confuse students who are conditioned to learn that only one answer is correct, but then i try to remind them that english is very fluid and is changing all the time, and what is spoken in australia today might not be spoken in england tomorrow.

brian, as you said, maybe its better to ask which answer is more appropriate instead of which one is correct.

the correct answer, in my mind, is, there's more than one answer. thanks to all.

[latefordinner]

The correct answer, in my mind, is that it is the wrong question, and that attempting to say that the answer is X, Y, Z or any combination of the above fails to answer the needs both of the students and of the syllabus.

[Old Dog]

Sadly, there is no syllabus (or so our teachers say) - so, in preparing their students for the exam the poor old Chinese teacher has something of a problem. Hence, past papers become the syllabus. Still, it must be said that NE English papers are generally of pretty good quality and rarely do the abominable things that students and teachers find in locally-knocked-up "exercise" sheets.

But it's a good thing that your teachers take the trouble to inquire about questions such as that presented in this thread. If, having asked the question, they then have the patience to listen to and to discuss your answer, then it can only lead them to a greater sensitivity to the peculiarities and the flexibility of English, things that their b/w English education has not provided most Chinese teachers with.

[latefordinner]

Old Dog: