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Each1Teach1
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:59 pm Post subject: Do most contracts include an initial probation/trial period? |
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Hello out there..... 
I was just wondering if anybody would be able to share their wisdom with me regarding whether or not most schools in Taiwan include a probation/trial period on their contracts. 
I'm interested in going to Taiwan, and I want to know what I'll be getting my self into  ..
Thanks a lot for taking a look at my message... I'd really appreciate any advice given. Take care!!
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, usually they do. Don't worry about that too much, though. If you're worried about being canned, you won't be if you show up every day and try a little. They need you more than you need them. |
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puiwaihin
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:00 pm Post subject: Yes- and there's good reason |
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As Steve said, most contracts have a trial period written in them. And as he said, most teachers get past the trial period even if they are somewhat inept as teachers as long as they come to work and at least try. Some pretty poor teachers keep their jobs. Anyone halfway decent should have no worries.
Just be sure and do your homework on the particular school you'll be working for. I didn't and I'm paying for it right now as I was terminated WITHOUT the trial period in my contract. The school I thought was great has an exceptionally high turnover rate.
But most schools will be better than that. |
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Each1Teach1
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,
Thanks a lot for the advice... I really appreciate that you took out the time to help. Actually, my concern was not that I would get fired.. my concern is that I might find the school to be ridiculous or that I won't want to stay in Taiwan.. From my experience with language schools... unless the director is a very open minded person.. he/she will have a problem with me leaving their school on my own will. The fact is that you don't know much about a school till you get to it, so I don't want to get myself stuck in a situation that's not healthy. I'd like to have it so that both the school and I understand that we can walk away from the contract within the trial period without any drama.
Again, Thanks a lot. .. and by the way.. for puiwaihin.. don't worry about being fired.. all that crazy kind of stuff happens for a reason, to push you into better experiences and paths that are meant for you. I know it sucks, so just work hard and everything will fall into place.
If anybody has anymore experiences to share about trial periods on contracts or breaking a contract during the probation period, I'd appreciate hearing about it.
Take care everybody. |
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Girl Scout
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 525
Location: Inbetween worlds
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| my concern is that I might find the school to be ridiculous or that I won't want to stay in Taiwan.. |
You will probably find the school ridiculous. Taiwan educational system is not like anything you're currently used to. This idea of how to educate carries over to most buxibans or language schools as you called them. There are always contraints and expectations that a lot of teachers find useless and "ridiculous". Many schools barely supply you with materials or resources. Some schools dictate most of what you do in the class, and have a TA in there to make sure you do it.
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| unless the director is a very open minded person.. |
That's laughable. There are some open-minded people in this country. I just haven't worked for one. I have worked for three employers and open-minded would not be a trait I would use to describe even one.
Any school would be unhappy if you just left. They have gone to a lot of expense obtaining your ARC, visa and health insurance. If you want leave a school you should negotiate out of your contract. You can always get out of your contract at any time, even after the trial period. Negotiate. Help find a replacement. Give them fair warning and a plausible excuse. Their are plenty of ways to leave and still save face for all involved. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| Girl Scout wrote: |
| Any school would be unhappy if you just left. |
That's almost certain to be the case. Unless of course you are not a good teacher, and then they may be pleased to see the back of you.
| Girl Scout wrote: |
| They have gone to a lot of expense obtaining your ARC, visa and health insurance. |
That is often an exuse use by some schools for penalizing teachers but I don't believe that it has any validity.
Firstly the insurances are based upon your wages. If you have been earning a wage then you have been working, and if you have been working then you more than likely have been making money for the school. The schools share of these expenses is mandated by the government as a percentage of your salary and any good school will factor these expenses in when calculating how much they want to offer you in the first place. If any school suggests to you that you could cover these costs by way of a penalty when you leave, then you should suggest to them that since the government received the money, maybe they should contact the government for the money back. If they did deduct this money from your pay and wrote somewhere that it had been deducted to pay back these expenses then I am confident that you could get the money back were you to raise the issue with the relevant authorities. The CLA would be a good place to start.
Secondly, the ARC costs. If the school was gracious enough to pay for your health check and visas etc. then it seems fair to me that they be reimbursed for these expenses if you were to choose to leave early. After all, these monies were paid on the basis that you would be working for them for a year. Conversely it would seem to be fair to ask the school to give you some money if they were to cancel your contract after you had incurred these costs to work for them. Most schools wouldn't oblige but some would if you spoke with them in a reasonable manner.
| Girl Scout wrote: |
| If you want leave a school you should negotiate out of your contract. You can always get out of your contract at any time, even after the trial period. Negotiate. Help find a replacement. Give them fair warning and a plausible excuse. Their are plenty of ways to leave and still save face for all involved. |
Agreed.
Some people will suggest that you should just do a runner. I don't agree with this. Sure, in notifying your boss in advance that you are leaving, you are giving the school the opportunity to screw you if they really want to. In fact I have been disadvantaged myself in the past for complying with a resignation clause in my contract whereby I could be released after five weeks notice. I gave the notice. Worked well until my last day, but still got screwed over when they cancelled my ARC prematurely. It does happen, but not always.
If you act respectfully to the school then they may just start to act respectfully to teachers. If teachers are going to just run away for what ever reason, then we can expect the schools to attempt to mitigate against these losses. It is to every teachers benefit for each individual teacher to act responsibly. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Clark,
Not that I would really prefer to do so but what do you expect teachers to do when schools include ridiculous clauses in the contracts that penalise teachers who leave early. If a school was going to fine me a month's salary for breaking my contract, not to mention also needing to give them a month's notice, then I am most likely to leave just after pay day when my losses are least. I would rather lose 5 or 10 days salary than 30 days salary. Also, ARCs are transferable so in order to find a school to transfer it over to it would probably be easier to do this before your current school cancels your ARC.
It is difficult but you may be able to line a job up to start after one month. However most jobs would want you to begin almost immediately. If you do bide by the rules and give a month's notice to your school, they will only keep you if it is convenient for them. If they find a teacher when you still have two weeks left to work, guess who is thrown out into the gutter?
Clark, I don't like it when teachers leave a school without giving any notice but what do you expect them to do when a school includes these clauses in their contracts. Legal or not, they are still likely to screw you.
It is not really a problem here but is countries like Korea and Japan, bonuses are usually given on completion of a one year contract. (I have never worked in either country.) What do I do to prevent being fired two weeks before I finish my contract? Should I sign on for another year and do a runner or just put up with it? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Nice post Ki. You raise some very good questions, so let me give you my perspective for what it's worth.
| Ki wrote: |
| Not that I would really prefer to do so but what do you expect teachers to do when schools include ridiculous clauses in the contracts that penalise teachers who leave early. If a school was going to fine me a month's salary for breaking my contract, not to mention also needing to give them a month's notice, then I am most likely to leave just after pay day when my losses are least. |
You've hit the nail on the head. For contract clauses to be workable, they need to be reasonable. The above is not reasonable.
To suggest that a teacher needs to give a months notice AND lose a month's pay is in my opinion unreasonable. Given that situation I am sure that you wouldn't be the only one to do a runner, and I don't think that many people would blame you for that. The school was being unreasonable, and the situation that they presented to you was unworkable.
For the penalty system to be effective, it needs to be applied with reason, and that is not always the way that it is done. Giving a months notice is pretty standard stuff, and I doubt that many would disagree with this requirement. In the absence of such notice you may forfeit some money by way of a penalty. It is either one or the other. If a school insisted on both then I can't say that I would necessarily oblige.
My whole take on penalties is that the maximum penalty should be reduced according to how much notice you give, whether or not you work well between the time you resign and the time you leave, and whether or not you are able to assist by introducing someone to take over your classes. Satisfying all of the above may result in no penalty being levied at all, while just disappearing without notice would result in the full penalty amount being deducted from your pay. I understand that this may sound like fairy land, but some reputable schools do exactly this, and this is the type of system that I hope we would all support.
| Ki wrote: |
| Also, ARCs are transferable so in order to find a school to transfer it over to it would probably be easier to do this before your current school cancels your ARC. |
If you were leaving your current employer, and knew this in advance, the best way to protect yourself would be to get the second employer on your ARC before you leave the first employer. This way you wouldn't need to worry about the first employer cancelling your work permit/resident visa/ARC. This is a relatively new system and I am unsure how well it works, but theoretically this would be the best way to go.
| Ki wrote: |
| If you do bide by the rules and give a month's notice to your school, they will only keep you if it is convenient for them. If they find a teacher when you still have two weeks left to work, guess who is thrown out into the gutter? |
That is entirely correct. You should see how local workers are treated in this regard. It is even more pitiful than the way foreigners are treated.
| Ki wrote: |
| It is not really a problem here but is countries like Korea and Japan, bonuses are usually given on completion of a one year contract. (I have never worked in either country.) What do I do to prevent being fired two weeks before I finish my contract? |
I think the best way to look at bonuses is to expect that you won't get them when you are calculating the financials of any position.
If by chance your school comes through and pays you these bonuses then great, you have more money than you expected in your pocket. If on the other hand they try to avoid or withhold payment of these monies then you won't be left hanging as you didn't really expect them anyway. Don't let the promises of bonuses become a deciding factor when you are weighing up your job options. It is not worth it.
Bonuses are really just the new deposits. Some employers offer monthly attendance bonuses which they withhold until the end of the year. If you leave, or get fired, before the end of the year then the employer will keep these bonuses. This is one of the reasons that I have always suggested that hourly pay is the best way to go. You know what your paid and you know what you need to do to get the pay. There are no hidden surprises or disappointments. |
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