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FGT · Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Turkey

On Thursday I taught an elementary class about various celebrations - Christmas, (yes it is in december one week before) New Year; Easter, which happens to be this week; weddings etc. At the end of the lesson, I asked, in all innocence (really) why there were so many flags flying - what is the bayram? They told me about the flag burning in Mersin. That was the first I heard about it. One of my students said (ish - he's only elementary) "had I been there I would have killed the flag burners!"

Subsequently I read the story on the Internet. The "culprits" were 12 and 14 years old.

Now we have flags flying everywhere, from school buildings, homes, government offices etc etc. because the populace are supporting their nation. Who is going to tell them to take the flags down? If one neighbour takes down the flag within a week, will the other neighbours condemn him as being unpatriotic?

Nobody asked why the kids wanted to burn the flag.

Nobody asked what will happen to the kids now they've been arrested.

I find this disturbing. I can burn my nation's flag anytime I want.

What do you think?

gelin · Joined: 09 Mar 2003 Posts: 144 Location: Istanbul, Turkey

It is illegal to burn the Turkish flag, as well as wear it as apparel -- every once in a while some designer will use it and there will be a big stink raised.

You must remember that the Turkish Republic is fairly new and they still "remember" what it was like beforehand. Let them wave their flags. It's when they wrap their flags across their eyes and can't see anything else when it bothers me....

molly farquharson · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 839 Location: istanbul

I think this particular stink is related to the nevruz celebrations, where people were waving the new Kurdish flag, hence a threat to Turkey.

In the US there are similar laws against desecrating the flag, though obviously people can wear it (unlike here).

whynotme · Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 728 Location: istanbul

i think someone pushed the button and now is watching what is happening with a mug of coffeee and laughing.....
when i first saw them trying to tear and burn the flag , i was swearing and shouting (could be hard for you to understand but we Turks believe that flag symbolizes the holly concept of state ( devlet) which is as dear as our family.) but then i saw that two kids were doing it with the force of X ( which we will never know) and everyone here is protesting it while Turkey is on the doormat of EU...cant u see the games played in Turkey....

31 · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 1797

with the force of X ( which we will never know) and everyone here is protesting it while Turkey is on the doormat of EU...cant u see the games played in Turkey....[/quote]

Is that the same force that was behind the excessive force used by the police recently to put down the women`s demonstration?

whynotme · Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 728 Location: istanbul

could it be exaggerated by the media????or the force of x???

molly farquharson · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 839 Location: istanbul

I think to a certain extent it is exaggerated by the media. I was on the edges of a protest on Istiklal during NATO and there would be about 5 protestors, 10 police, and 20 media people. This current situation is also aggravated by the govt, but it seems to be making people come together in a way, so hopefully it will be of a better sort. I expect the kids will be let go-- what else can they do?

calsimsek · Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 775 Location: Ist Turkey

Back home you can do what you want to the flag, but not here.
The flag repersents what the dis-intergrated ottoman state had never managed to do.

Present an image of unity. If your burne the flag back home that means you dissagree with the actions of the state.

Here it is taken as a direct attack on the nation. Perhapes the reaction was too strong, perhapes they should'nt let kids get them so worked up. Yet at a time when from the view of so many, the nation is under question.

We all are living through a difficult time in this nations history. As it charts the waters of matuerity and intergration, it will have to leave behind many of its old habits.
Faith in nation will never be lost in this country. Yet the emotions of the people will cool with time.

gypsy67 · Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 9 Location: Istanbul, Turkey

Molly, I'm going to have to disagree with you about the rules regarding desecration of the flag and free speech in the US. The most recent Supreme Court case to that effect upheld a person's right to burn a flag as protected free speech. Congress has since tried to amend the Constitution several times in response. I, personally, am troubled by the overattachment to such fetishes as flags. However, in the case of Turkey, I can understand how a degree of insecurity would generate such an attachment. I think it is an expression of one's security as a people that they can allow free expression even when it seems repugnant.