Job Discussion Forums

[ctmiezio]

Hi I'm considering an offer with Prince Sultan university and I'm really wondering about the social life in Saudi Arabia with other expats. Can anybody describe what life is like for an expat in Riyadh? The housing for PSU is in the diplomatic quarter... is there a social scene? Expat bars? Things to do?

In particular what worries me is this... I have broken up with my girlfriend and so would be going to Saudi alone. Since most places don't seem to recruit women, I'm wondering if I would be facing 2 years without any woman in my life. This might sound superficial and I'm a little shy to ask the question, but seriously, I don't know if I could face the prospect of 2 monastic years. My impression is that Saudi is a place to go to with a wife in tow. Am I getting the wrong impression, or am I correct? I'd really appreciate any thoughts.

[scot47]

I suspect Saudi is not for you. Try UAE ?

[Gnome]

Make some contacts in the hospitals. Get invited to their parties and you may be surprised how popular you will be with the Western expat nurses. It doesn't take much. They are as desperate as you. The worst kept secret in Saudi is the activity that takes place behind compound walls. Am I right or have things changed in the last few years?

[Stephen Jones]

Dear OP

Most Saudis in Riyadh never see another woman's face outside of those of the women in their immediate family until after they marry.

Cross the pavement, as the Spanish say, or avoid anywhere in the Gulf. The Western women that are accessible are going to be in great demand, so even in places like the Emirates where you will have easy contact with them you are still playing with the cards stacked against you.

[johnyarrington]

I'm married now, so I can't say from recent personal experience, but........I was single here in Riyadh for 5 years. I found that the only thing worse than being alone.....was trying to find a girlfriend. Even just someone to talk to. I like women. All kinds. And yeah, you can do the party scene, get to know the nurses, meet them in compounds, etc., etc. But I found it just a mess.
I just found so many women nervous, "up to" something, running from something or someone, militantly feminist or wanting to get married tomorrow, .......I dunno, socially inept, I'd say. This thing about "being highly desired"........We used to have a joke: What does the Customs Officer say to a nurse from Saudi Arabia when she gets back to her home country?: So, how does it feel to be fat and ugly again?

WHOA!! I hope nobody takes this too seriously! Yeah, there are some pretty girls, but this thing of being......like, "admired" by every member of the male species, it makes many of them.......like, it goes to their head way, way too much. Too many ladies take themselves too seriously. I've seen fights started at parties because someone else sat in a chair that seemed to be unoccupied. Guy's there with his girlfriend, and YOU KNOW that this is the only time they can get together....... The fact that you're in such a large fishbowl.........You might as well publish everything you do, say, and are in the Arab Snooze, when you go out. Everybody knows everything........I know guys who get dropped......sometimes when they're ON a date (i.e., the girl comes with the guy but she leaves with someone else) 'cause the second one had a newer car, a nicer compound, bought her a more expensive present.......

Women are a hot commodity here. Problem is, most of them know it. Those that don't, think they are.

I REALLY don't mean to make this sound anti-women. I just tried and tried to meet someone nice, from any country, just to spend some time with, no big deal, and I found it just wasn't worth it. Too many headaches, too complicated, just really a mess.

PSC is a good place to work, and the apartments in the DQ are very nice, but like everything else in Saudi, you gotta scramble, scramble, scramble to get what you want. "A nice evening out" is when my wife and I used to sit outside the PSC apartments in the DQ and eat a pizza at PizzaItalia. Not any more. Not safe.

May I be the first to predict that the murders/bombings/beheadings will start up again? Soon. Not if. Only a question of when.

[ctmiezio]

Thanks for the thoughts, everybody. This has made me a little bit depressed about the whole idea of going to Saudi now. Since there are no dissenting opinions I'm going to take you at your word. I'm teaching at a Korean university right now and basically I would say that Korea stinks. However this has brought to light one thing that Korea does have going for it... lots of Western girls...

I hate to make a job decision based on this, but seriously, it's important! How can you be a good teacher when you're going mental from lack of company???

Anyway thanks once again.

[scot47]

Whyt not get married ? Find a soulmate for life ! I have done this several times ! (Well - twice)

[Gnome]

Johnny,

Thanks for speaking about the expat women we come across and want to date in Saudi. I spent 2 years on a very restrictive hospital compound and was constantly attracted to one nurse or another. Of course, none wanted to have anything to do with me. They wanted to get as far away from the compound as possible and usually ended up in one of the nearby American compounds, where Saudis weren't allowed. Most were hooked up in the first week. And you're right, there were lots with "hidden financial agendas." I guess you can't blame them, but it sure made for a terrible 2 years for me, and sure gave me a jaded impression of my fellow westerners. I thought I was the only one, so thanks again for "sharing."

You're not working at the IPA anymore?? Have you switched to Al Yamamah? Stay safe!

[Cleopatra]

[johnyarrington]

ctmiezio:

Your "you're going mental" quote cracked me up! Yes, you ARE "going mental" half the time you're here! Up = down, good = bad, fantasy = reality, you name it, that's the Magic Kingdumb! I can't count the amount of crap I've heard, that passes for truth. Sometimes I think the only thing wrong with Saudi Arabia is its people---and not the Saudis! Foreigners, I mean, and people from my country are no better at all. Sometimes worse! Most days, I think either I'm "going mental", or they are!

Gnome: Who are you? Yep, still at the IPA, and I still like it. Mostly. Boy, have things changed around here. Some for the better, some things worse. Not as many nutty Americans, Europeans, etc. That's good.


Cleopatra:

I absolutely agree on several things: I CERTAINLY ain't puttin Brad Pitt outta business soon, and I wasn't several years ago, when I was...."looking". I ain't stupid, but I agree 100% that "they (are not) neccessarily renowned for their molten hot intellects or beguiling charm. "

I love that phrasing.

In fact, most of what I said about women "running from something" is doubly true for most guys. One often gets the feeling that they violated their parole, and had to either go back to jail or take a job in Saudi. Running from a bad marriage, in serious, deep, debt, or......"up to something". We just had a very sad experience here at the IPA---one guy got fired mid-year. Hasn't happened in 15 years. And as it happens........well, not to speak badly of those who have passed on, but.....I don't want to give details. Suffice it to say that getting fired was not the worst thing that could have happened to this guy.

"profound abnormality" is another phrase that hits the spot! It's exactly what I mean! Life in Saudi, especially in Riyadh, is like one long, painful experience in "profound abnormality". It's why I gave up looking for someone.

I agree also that the party scene just ain't what it used to be. Maybe that's good: I've found that so very often, people have incredibly bad judgement here. When you listen carefully to enough stories, and ask in great detail about what happened, where, when, how, etc., etc., I often want to ask people, "Where the HECK do you think you ARE???!!! IN CHICAGO??!!" Use a little common sense! There are still parties going on, but no, I'm not gonna frequent a place that has had a dead man in its pool, who passed out (apparently) from being drunk. The Minister of Interior got involved......what a mess! And these people are still doing it! Just had another bash last weekend. And no, I don't visit any of the "private bars" anymore that paid off the police. It was stupid of me to do it 7 years ago, and it's even stupider now.

Finally, I agree mostly that safety is largely about perceptions. I'm just getting over a deep depression that I had ever since my friends were murdered in June. I just couldn't shake it. But Saudi Arabia is so much, much more UNlike any other place on the planet, and it's so necessary to "get out of your mind" the paranoia that can be so very pervasive. Perceptions, yes, but common sense and THINKING SOMETHING THROUGH are also very important. More so here than anywhere.

[/b]

[darkside1]

I was reading this thread from a completely different perspective until John's last post. I spent two relatively happy and productive years in Saudi until I left 18 months ago. I just caught the beginning of the phase where westerners (and others) on western compounds became targets for the terrorists. I don't know Riyadh, I was based on the western side of the country and, although the comments on 'social life' here pretty much ring true for me as well, there always seemed to be ways and means around the issue of getting together with female company.

The goalposts were shifted considerably after the attacks in May 2003 (not the first ones I know, but it seemed to mark a turning point), and after that the business of having a 'social life' in the sense I would recognize looked to have hit a wall. I haven't ruled out returning to KSA one day (depends if we get a government that decides to erode teachers' pensions in the UK even more in the future). Although it may seem shallow to say so on a forum such as this, I made friends there who are good people and whose safety I remain concerned about.

[Bebsi]

It's been a few weeks since my last posting on this site, but here's my tuppence ha'penny worth, on the issue of getting a shag in KSA (Let's not pull punches here, guys!!).

I have been there, both as a single man and as a happily married one. While wearing th elatter hat, I have no significant contributions to make, except that I would seriously suggest somewhere like KFUPM or the RC if you are thinking of leaving the wife at home. I couldn't even begin to imagine one of those jobs, especially with contractors, where you get a total of one month holidays a year. This is as opposed to KFUPM, which is the opposeite end of teh spectrum with over four months...about 18 weeks typically.

Speaking from a period I spent in the Kingdom as a single, footloose and fancy-free (not so young) man, I can offer some observations here.


Forget the western women. There are very few of them in Saudi, proportionally to the men. Most of them are already spoken-for...those that are not, only have to go to places like BAE in Khobar on a Thursday night and as soon as they walk through the door, a stampede of dozens of guys occurs in their general direction. Yes, I include in this women who would not get a second look...or even a first look...dammit, even a semblance of a "pre-look"...anywhere else. It is simply the laws of supply and demand.

Ok, someone has to get lucky, but it is usually someone who works or has contact with the women in question, as another poster has pointed out. No, it doesn't have to be Brad Pitt who succeeds. It's not about strikingly handsome features, earth-moving charm or vast riches...it's about luck. However, on the law of averages, you will NOT get laid by western women. It also happens that a considerable number of the western women there, as has been observed, DO think they are the hottest commodity around even if they are not. Who could blame them? Like I said, supply and demand!!

A small number of western women are there to meet a rich Saudi, but that's their business. May their expectations be realised!

There are many women in KSA other than western, mainly from places such as the Philippines, Ethiopia, Nigeria and other less well-off countries. These women are in far greater numbers and are more reaqdily accessible to western men, irrespective of whether they are indeed Brad Pitt or just a Bad Brit!!!! This is largely, however, due to economic factors. The choice facing those women is threefold: Marry their own, and end up back where they came from (they have, for the most part been trying hard to get out of where they came from); hook up with a Saudi and end up living a VERY restricted life (it's amazing how proportionally, far fewer of these women have sad delusions about marrying into Saudi society than westerners); or find a westerner who will take care of them, maybe take them to his own country, and certainly provide them with a far better life than they would otherwise have had.

Yes, a lot of them are interested in your wallet guys...but are women in the west all that different, all that free of such materialistic vices? If I may sound cynical, as a westerner in KSA you have a far bigger wallet, relatively speaking, than in the west. Certain cultures do not encourage pre-marital sex, and many women from these cultures will expect you to at least show a strong commitment before you get your oats, if I may be so crude! But again, is unfettered, easy sex all that readily available in western societies? If is is, many of us would like to hear about it.

However, meeting even those women will be logistically difficult, due to the severe social restrictions in KSA. Acess to hospitals will in turn give access to Filipina nurses, and there are LOTS of them, many available. Like I say, getting to meet them is the difficult part.

Me? Well, after many fruitless nights at BAE, I discovered Bahrain. From then, to the time I met my wife (NOT in KSA, I would add) I didn't look back once. All those women that I have described, are there to be met, and yes, westerners are in VERY high demand. I am not talking about the "Business ladies" (plenty of them also should you get desperate) but ordinary women. They DO like you to splash out tho...but C'Mon, what woman doesn't? LOL.

So, go once in a while to The Magic Island...you can have serious fun there

Happy Days in KSA!!!!