Job Discussion Forums

[james_baldrey]

Having completed two years teaching in Thailand and then my CELTA in the UK i am now working for a Korean university for the next year. When my contract finishes, i have myheart set on doing an MA in TESOL somewhere in Thailand. I have done some research, and the only place i can find is Payap Uni in Chiang Mai. It seems like a good price at 4200 USD, but was wondering if any other universities had the course.

Also has anyone done the course? Is it possible to work part time to pay the bills, or is it flat out studying? Also i have a masters in International management, so am i wasting my time? I really want to do it to be the best possible teacher i can and to be able to apply for the top jobs and DOS jobs around the world. It would be nice to be able to say i actually was somewhat qualified too! Any advice would be most welcome!

Cheers guys!

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

Assumption University in Bangkok might have one for you.

I was going to teach in their M.A. TESOL program for local English teachers. Don't know if foreign applicants are accepted in this particular program, though.

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hello james!

If you haven't already found it: scroll all the way down to the TEFL FAQ on The Master Index sticky.

In FAQ 11, you'll find a complete list of TEFL programs in Thailand, including the MA programs.

The links to Assumption & Burapha Universities are in there too!

PS: If you found the links already, please disregard this message -

It will self destruct in 30 seconds.

[james_baldrey]

Thanks a lot for that Kent! sorry didn't even occur to me to check there! doh!

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Mai pen rai!

[james_baldrey]

I sent off a load of emails to all the major universities in Bangkok, but have got 1 reply!! TYPICAL!!

Anyway, i am going to choose the course that is full time...so does anyone knwo which uni has a full time MA, because the websites don't seem to say and the unis haven't responded!

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hi James:

Try to be patient ... and remember

we're in the midst of Thai SUMMER HOLIDAY !

Many campus offices will be closed (or working with reduced staff) until mid May.

[magershey]

Hi James,
I am a graduate student at Payap in their TESOL Department. Soon I will finish the courses but then it's on to the thesis. Here's a few thoughts to consider if you're interested in studying at Payap or anywhere else in Thailand. Perhaps some of this will be relevant for studying other places as well.

I would first recommend going to the website of any place you plan to attend and scanning the website for course offerings and credentials of instructors. Another idea I thought of recently would be to ask if any of the instructors have published or are planning to publish soon. Maybe you could ask to see an abstract of what they are working on - or if it's on the net they could give you the URL. I doubt there is a one to one correspondence between quality of instruction and quality or quantity of publications but it could provide you with extra clues to point you in the right direction.

Some people on these boards seem to mostly think in terms of dollars and cents. While economic considerations are certainly understandable it is probably just as important, or more so, to think about your particular interests in the field and how the university you plan to attend is in tune with that. I read a book recently called 'What should I do with my life' which chronicled the stories of people who made life and career altering changes. One of the things Po Bronson, the author, said was that the most practical thing anyone could do was follow their interest as people tend to be the most productive when they love what they do.

Payap, for some people would be a good choice: it's a good choice if you're interested in being in real TESOL environment while you study. I've been able to teach students from Burma, Brazil, Japan, China, and Thailand while I've been here. And I've been able to consult with professors on some of my teaching. I just finished a practicum in teaching Reading for Academic Purposes where I had students from several different countries in the same class. Now I couldn't guarantee that anyone coming here would have the exact same opportunity but there are definitely opportunities to do a variety of teaching while you are here. I also have taught some intensive classes to Thai nursing students - these courses were arranged by one of the professors who has done a lot of work in English for Special Purposes. I learned a lot from those courses.

If you're interested in linguistics this is a good place as well as you can also take courses in the linguistics department. In addition to general linguistics' courses in syntax, phonology, and sociolinguistics, there are opportunities to study some of the tribal languages. It's not required that you take linguistics classes in the linguistics department. Just an option for your electives.

I've generally been surprised by the quality of education I have received here. It's not all been strawberries and cream, some classes have been much better for me than others, but it's generally been a quality educational experience. There are some drawbacks: Thailand is still a developing country so certain things here reflect that - student services are not as strong as I would like them to be; I would prefer a library open to midnight, but it's only open until 7:30. The computer labs close around 5 on campus. There are certainly cheap internet cafes around but cheap is not free.

Anyone coming to Thailand should understand they can't have all the things here they had back home. Water pressure is a bit low in many apartments, dogs run the streets, pollution can be high - especially in the spring, garbage services are haphazard. What are your deal breakers?

Here's one more thought about all this. I think there are a couple of different ways to think about the field: the static view and the dynamic view. From the static viewpoint it probably makes the most sense to just get this degree back in your home country. If you plan to work back in your home country and you are entirely certain of your goals and career direction and plan to retire in the field, a degree from back in your home country might be the route to go. But from the dynamic perspective getting a degree in a foreign country like Thailand might make just as much sense. We don't know exactly how the field will evolve. These kinds of programs may very well be on the cutting edge, the wave of the future. Payap is hoping to establish some partnerships with other programs in other countries. This way, students could study in both settings. If this is the wave of the future, as some people think it might be, that could look good on a resume in addition to providing you with an unusual and rich educational opportunity. It makes some sense if you're not entirely certain where you want to end up in your career and if you don't want to spend your life's savings on a degree.

Of course, how this degree is perceived by others in other countries is an understandable concern. I don't think there is a way of knowing that without interviewing all those separate employers. I am sure that at least some of them might look askance at that. But remembering that this is TESOL and not MBA there are many others who would probably be open to this degree. In Japan, I think connections are even more important than where you got your degree. I had a friend who got a university teaching job in Japan who did not even have a master's degree in any field. He just had gotten lucky and met the right people.

If you're concerned about finding work while teaching here that wouldn't be a concern in Thailand and at Payap in particular. I can't guarantee if you could teach at the university. I have taught here but I came at the right time. It will depend on when you come and whether teaching vacancies have already been filled. But there are plenty of other teaching jobs around. How much you can teach and do quality work in your studies is another question. It can be a demanding program. I have definitely felt a tension on occasion between my teaching load and my studying load. But it's certainly possible as I've done it. I've gone to school part-time for three terms and full time for one term and have managed to get by on my savings and my part time teaching. Didn't even take out a loan. If you go to school part time I would say you should probably not teach over 10 hours a week, max. Full time and you shouldn't teach over about 5 - 6 hours. But this will also depend on your time management skills: I think mine could use some work.

Okay, that's about it. If there are other questions, let me know. I have to finish all my papers very soon so it might be a couple of weeks before I can respond again.

Mark

[grimy wretch]

James,
There are some quality MA TESOL programs in Thailand - and also some poor ones. If you are still considering Thailand, then some questions I suggest you ask of any program are (in no particular order):

1. Staff - full-time or not? Are the staff full-time or hired by the hour? Many universities here use part-time staff from other institutions, or other branches of the same institution. In general these outside staff don't have the same commitment to the program development, or the students. And they're not likely to be around when you need them.

2. Staff - Thai or not? I'd ask about whether the staff are Thai or non-Thai. Don't get me wrong, there are excellent Thai teachers. Sadly, however, many Thai university instructors find themselves overwhelmed by administrative duties and extra teaching. The result is that their M.A. or Ph.D. degrees from abroad become the peak of their achievement rather than the start of their academic careers. Foreign staff may be less involved in administration and so have more time to devote to teaching. They may also find it easier to keep up to date with developmets in the field. Also, non-Thai staff provide an outsider's viewpoint which is essential for any international program.

3. Staff qualifications. Check out the credentials of the staff. Having said above that you'd probably want a program with healthy input from non-Thais, be sure to check that the foreign staff are well-qualified. It is not unknown for government universities here to employ farangs who don't themselves have MA degrees to teach MA courses! I guess this fits in with government university pay scales which (for non-Thais) do not take into account experience or qualifications.

4. Entrance standards. Try to find out the English entrance standards for the program. Of course it doesn't apply to you, but you don't want to find yourself on a course where you are the only one who can contribute to class discussions. Beware too of published entrance standards (e.g. TOEFL scores of 500) which are in fact never implemented. Maybe you'd also want to ask about the requirement for teaching experience.

5. Assessment. Most MA courses internationally have given up on exams in favor of term papers. Educationally these should be superior as they require students to get involved in searching the literature, engaging with it and responding to it thoughtfully. Some Thai programs are still living in the age of midterm and final examinations.

6. Students. Check out the student body. In a TESOL program I think that there is great benefit to having input from students from a variety of backgrounds. Ideally MA students should be stimulated by their peers as well as their instructors. Why not ask for the breakdown of Thai / non-Thai students. It's not that non-Thais will necessarily make better classmates, but they are likely to be highly motivated. (Asian students may well have gone through a selection process at home.)

7. Staff teaching load. Ask about the staff teaching load. Staff with heavy teaching loads, or those whose main teaching is in undergraduate programs are less likely to be able to give you time when you need it.

I'd hope that any serious program would be able to give answers to these questions.

G

[Sheep-Goats]

A lot of info from people who know quite a bit above, it seems.

Beware, however, that unless you plan to stay in Thailand forever, taking the MA TESOL here may not be what you hope it will be. Even if the course is good, the qualification may be sidelined for one from a "real" western university if you try to take it to Japan or the Middle East to make some moolah some day.

Also, be aware that the best job I've heard of a MA TESOL holder having in Thailand was 50,000B a month at Mahidol, teaching PhD students only, with one month of vacation per year -- and that most unis in Thailand have absoluetly no reguard for their staff's time -- meaning a ridiculous number of office hours and/or an actual punch clock with 40 hours a week required. I was making that much at a non-university with my BA and CELTA, but was teaching about double the number of hours.

In my opinion, it'd be better to get your MA TESOL by distance from a western university than in-residence from a Thai uni. But I'm sure the people already in the programs here in Thailand would disagree with me -- for some strange reason...

[magershey]

I am not sure about the best paying jobs available at universities for those who have finished an MA in TESOL. I do know that international schools, K-12, can pay as much as 50,000 baht a month or even more - I have heard of salaries in the 60 to 70 thousand range for a few of those.

In Japan, it's quite possible that an employer would prefer you have a degree from a western university. That's if you're going in cold. But in Japan, networks are often as much or more important than where your degree is from. Another consideration might be how well your employer, or other teachers who have influence in hiring with the employer, is connected to the TESOL field. If he or she is, it would be of interest, not just where your degree is from, but whether you have published or presented at a conference and how much or often.

Money is certainly an understandable consideration in all this. But another option is to think about whether you want to distinguish yourself in the field. There are interesting possibilities for that in Thailand, considering the rich ethnic diversity - down the road that might even lead to economic opportunities. It's important to ask yourself about your interests, beyond the immediate dollar signs, even if you hope to make good money in the field down the road.

The world will not stand still - barring a complete shutdown of all trade. Things will continue to develop and change. The use of English will continue to expand all over the world. As it expands, a new question will begin to arise, that actually has already arisen: who owns English? As the world changes and English use expands, teachers in the field might want to get a leg up on the kind of English spoken in their region. One day, those who are limited to the English of England, or of America, or of Australia, or Canada, might be left out in the cold.

[Sheep-Goats]

[junkmail]

Does anyone have opinions on the M.Ed offered through TEFL International in conjunction with Burapha university?

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Here's the link, for anyone who may be unfamiliar with it:

http://www.teflinternational.com/m_ed_tesol.html (TEFL Int. & Manipal U / MSc TESOL)

~

[junkmail]