Job Discussion Forums

[Keath]

Hi, there is a teacher who is in a bit of a legal situation. Has anyone had this experience or have any advice on this situation?

Below is his statement of the accident, He has been asked to pay, and has paid at least 6,000 RMB already to the victims family, though the police have not formally found him responsible. There was another car involved which from his personal account on the phone seems to indicate the car was more the culprit.

Anyway the woman who was struck by his motor scooter is in the hospital with a fractured skull, the womans family is very poor, and although this teacher was not driving with a license or any kind of registration - this teacher is 19 years old and has little money also.

____________________________________________

Re: accident that occurred April 7 2005, involving <TEACHER>. I am a foreign English instructor, employed at <School> Xingtai, Hebei Province, my citizenship is Canadian.

At approximately 18:30 on April 7 2005 a collision occurred involving myself and possibly two other parties. I was traveling west in the right hand lane on a four or five lane street, two of which intended for same direction traffic. I was driving parallel to another car as a woman riding a bicycle was crossing in front of us traveling south to north, perpendicular to traffic. At the time I noticed her, she was approximately one-third in the right lane, and two-thirds in the left lane. I planned to travel around her, to my right (in front of her path) as there was a car to my left, in my judgment there was not time enough to stop. I recall crossing her path in front of her, and then found myself on the ground, the exact details of my fall and the cause of my fall are unknown to me. I stood up immediately and surveyed the area. I noticed the woman on the ground lying on her left side, perpendicular to traffic, facing east. I hurried over to examine her, found that she was breathing and conscious, but definitely stunned. There was blood on the pavement, which appeared to be coming from the back of her head. My immediate concerns were for her condition and I checked over the rest of her body to ensure no other damage. (I have been trained in emergency medical first aid.) At seeing that she was conscious and breathing I stood up and started calling for assistance, as no one understood, the crowd watched and stood back. I recall a woman maybe 30 � 40 years of age indicating that she had phoned an ambulance, but again, the language barrier prevented me of being certain. I stayed with the injured woman for another minute or so, checking again vital signs and consciousness. My intentions there were to keep her still, conscious and coherent, as a concussion was more than likely. I noticed then that the two vehicles, her bicycle and the motor scooter, were obstructing traffic and I went to move them. I moved the bicycle, which seemed quite intact and undamaged, first. It was moved perhaps two meters from where the injured woman was. I moved it to the right side of the road. After, I went to the motor scooter, which also appeared overall undamaged, and moved it to the right hand side of the road. After this I returned to the injured woman. A man from the crowd, an apparent eyewitness, who spoke minor English, was inquiring about the car (that was traveling parallel to me prior to the collision) and its registration number. I told him I did not remember the number. (The police apparently have this mans contact information and are seeking his help in their investigation.) After another minute or so, the ambulance and police arrived. The ambulance took the injured woman, and the police stayed to survey the area. I was briefly questioned, limited translation provided from the before mentioned bystander, about license and identification. I attempted to portray that my identification was at No. 3 Middle School, and that I did not have a PRC driving license. Again, with the translation provided I am uncertain of what was actually understood, and I cannot say exactly what was said and understood between the officers, translator and myself. I was escorted to a police car, and set in the back seat with one officer in the front seat. There I waited between five and fifteen minutes. After which I was moved to the back of a police pick up truck, accompanied by three other officers. I was taken to a police department.

Overall, I am unaware of who is directly responsible for the collision. In my opinion the woman on the bicycle, obstructed visually and distracted by the car to my right, did not see me, though I saw her, and collided with the back end of my motor scooter as I was crossing her path. But my recollection of the incident is clouded. The indication of the bystander�s inquiry of the car to my right�s registration number gives me reason to believe that that car was involved in some way or another, again, I cannot confirm or deny this. Nor can I confirm a positive collision between the woman on the bicycle and myself, and that both of us could very well have fallen in attempt to avoid one another all together. I am hoping the police report will reveal the nature of the incident

[tofuman]

My guess is that regardless of fault, the FT, WITHOUT a driver's license, is going to be held responsible.

While riding my bike,the other day, I bumped a couple of guys on a bicycle, or they bumped me. Anyway, they fell and I didn't. I apologized profusely and was about to depart when they said for me to wait. They looked me up and down. I could almost see "income opportunity" flashing into the one fellow's brain. The other guy than began going over every inch of his old bicycle for any damage. I could smell the shakedown coming. I taught them another couple of English words "F* *ff" as I rode away. (I know it is wrong to use profanity, and, perhaps, to teach it, but the words just came out.)

Where I live, open heart surgery is available for 20,000 yuan, so it sounds to me as if these folks have already profitted from the ordeal.

Find out what actual medical costs are before throwing any more money their way.

How did a fellow 19 years of age become an FT? Is he here legally on a Visa Z?

[kev7161]

Well, without being TOO unsympathetic: The kid's not carrying school ID with him is probably not the smartest thing; nor is not having a driver's license. Paying the victim's family 6000rmb already - - was that of his own volition or was he made to do this? If I thought that I was culpable, then I probably would have waited for a claim to be set against me and/or official police charges to be made before admitting any sort of guilt or making any sort of payment. He did the right thing by staying at the scene and trying to help the lady the best he could - - that is a decent, humane thing to do. Sadly, it won't earn him any brownie points.

Collisions happen all the time here. Rarely is it only one person's fault. Being 19 years old, I can envision him being a little reckless on his motor scooter, but I also see bicyclists weaving in and out of traffic, ringing their little bike bells assuming everyone is going to jump out of their way. And we all know about auto drivers here. They are king of the road because they have a care and you don't. If I were your friend, I certainly wouldn't pay any more until a Chinese court of law demanded I do so (who asked him to pay anyway, the family?).

[cj750]

It is unlikely he had insur. which would have sheltered him from 80% of the cost...and without it..the proper paperwork driver's lic..he will likely be found 100% responsible...also required is a tax stamp for road use...check past threads about the liability laws that were just increased in China...look under driver's lic. It sounds like he may have gotten pressure for the local cops to settle, but the cop can write a paper which will settle for all time the claim..but Chinese will not settle until they know the cost......the foreigners pockets are deep and if the cop can get it settled before it requires a judge..he avoids the trouble of court and earns himself points for taken care opf the problem and taking care of Chinese people..you prob do not want to go to court...the max can go way up there and they can retain you in China on account of payment due because of judgement or pending judgement. I f you want to accept respon. (sound like he has) then try and match the hosp. payments and accept no pain and suffering ..threaten to go to court which will slow down the process...and pi$$ the cop off in the process..but dont worry about him..he will be happy with you when you settle. Dont pay pain and suffering as this will admit guilt...just settle the hosp cost.

[Roger]

If they cannot track down that car your friend will end up paying the entire hospital costs and other charges.

THis is not so much a case of "who is guilty?" as "who can pay for the patient?" Mind you, I know what your friend is experiencing; I have had my own run-ins with undisciplined motorists (on pavements of all places).
The point is this: the woman needed emergency operation; she had no funds on her, or insufficent funds; the next person available is made to pay. There is no insurance coverage, and hospitals in general refuse to perform any life-saving measures so long as no deposit has been secured.

The culprit could be made to refund your friend - with a little luck.
PRoblem is: who knows where he is? Chinese don't normally have the reflex of memorising number plates because they really don't know what that might be good for!

And, if the number plate reveals the driver was a military person (WJ in the number!) then your friend's hopes of finding justice are next to nil!

[Voldermort]

A similar thig happened to a friend of mine in Changchun last year. He had a high powered (by Chinese standards) motorbike. He was riding along with a female passenger at the time, no helmet's or insurance, hit some loose chippings and lost control.

He was ok, but the passanger was in a coma for a long while. From what I remember the police confiscated his bike and made him pay all the medical expenses. He had a lot of trouble trying to get his bike back. I can't tell you what the outcome was as I left the city. I think he managed to get away with any serious punishment because he knew the girl, but this didn't stop the police from trying.

I will agree with the others on here. Don't give up, pay the hospital fees and don't admit any guilt. The chances of the driver coming forward are very slim especially when it is a foreigner involved.

[clarrie]

Who in their right mind would want to drive a motorised vehicle of any sort in China? I certainly don't want to because acts of stupidity on the road in my mind, deserve injury or death - been here a while! - and I would happily facilitate that with anyone who wandered 'blindly' in front of a bigger, heavier, faster vehicle.

Don't know who's at fault? Say no more. Don't know that, shouldn't have been operating the vehicle.

An expensive lesson!

[yaco]

When an accident happens in a foreign country, it is always the fault of the foreigner.

[limits601]

He should get to Hong Kong and get on a flight back to canada and forget china until they get a new government. Then im sure he could come back in after that.

[Austrian]

The original posting is a week old by now, so maybe the entire situation has been resolved. But if not, I look at it from two aspects.
One is the responsibility or let's call it ethical situation the OP feels himself in, and the other is the legal one.
Another question is - does the OP want to stay in China by all means and go through this situation no matter what or ...?
As regards the legal situation - if the OP runs any risk of being held reliable for more than he should be held reliable for, maybe even having to go to jail?, I'd try to get out of China as fast as possible. If the OP feels personally responsible and feels that he wants to help that woman injured in the accident, this can also be done from abroad.
I'm not saying that driving without a license and without insurance is a wise thing to do, but if it can be done in a country it will always be done. I'm also not saying that the OP shouldn't care about what happens to the woman, but you also don't want to become the foreign scapegoat for whatever reason. I don't know whether the Chinese legal system under such circumstances can be trusted and if, to what extent. I'd try to reach some safe haven and get my mind straight again what can and should be done.
But as said, by now the smoke might have cleared or thickened - would be interesting if the OP would let us know ...