Job Discussion Forums

marblez · Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 248 Location: Canada

I have noticed a lot of job advertisements ask for standards such as "A" levels, and honours degrees. I am assuming an "A" level is a grade standard. Is honours a 4 year degree (as compared to 3 years), or 4 years with additional coursework and high grades?

Can anyone help convert these into Canadian standards?

If I have a 4 year BA with a 3.4 average (sadly, fictional), what would that be considered?

Thanks for the help.

lajzar · Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 647 Location: Saitama-ken, Japan

If there is a difference between a normal BA and a BA with honours in the UK, I am not aware of it. It certainly has nothing to do with your achievement or the degree length.

'A' level is a natioanl standard exam, usually taken by students at age 18. Typically a student will study only 3 subjects for the two years leading up to it, and take teh corresponding exams. Universities typically ask for a certain level of pass grades in A level exams as an entry requirement. UK universities do not normally set their own entrance exams.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

In Ontario, Canada, we used to have such "A" levels. They were called OAC's...Ontario Academic Credits, required as entrance to an Onatrio university. This was also called Grade 13, whereas grade 12 was all that was needed for a high school diploma. Ontario doesn't have these anymore, so I'm not sure we use as pre-reqs to university now. This ended sometime in the mid-90's.

I did my OAC's in English, English Writing, Physics, PoliSci, Economics, and Architectural Draughting. One needed 6 to enter uni, in my case journalism. Any younger Ontarians out there who can maybe let me know what the new system is?

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

Guy, For university entrance, they just use the grades from the grade twelve subjects . I had OACs when I graduated- mine were in English, Creative Writing, Music (classical = mostly theory, harmony and composition) Music (jazz), French (FSL) French Literature (for FSL students) and German Language. I started university in Interdisciplinary Fine Arts Studies (a non-studio degree where you compare different fine arts and write essays) with an intention of specializing in Creative Writing and Fine Arts Studies, but then switched schools and double majored in Music History and English, although that was originally going to be a Music History and Creative Writing double major but the Creative Writing programme was cancelled).

There is also the standard reading and literacy test (but anyone planning to go on to university shouldn't have too much difficulty with that. The problem is some of the kids who are not intending on going on to university- they may have a big problem with it, and without passing it, they can't get their high school diploma, which means they cannot get into college either) that has caused a lot of debate in Ontario, and may have been overhauled, I don't really know. As far as I know, universities in Ontario don't use it for admissions- it's just a requirement of getting the high school diploma.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Hmmm...as I feared. Sounds like they've downgraded education in Ontario.

Carelton U had a Q year program for older students...pre study that replaced OACs for those who graduated with a high school diploma but no OAC's. Wonder if that's even more important these days.

marblez · Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 248 Location: Canada

Alright, this is making more sense!

So I think the OAC is similar to BC's "Provincial" examinable courses. You need 4 of them for direct after high-school entrance into university.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

3plus1 · Joined: 09 Apr 2005 Posts: 17

Hi all,

As a UK undergraduate student, I thought I'd help clear up the qualifications for you!

An A-level is the name given to the type of qualification most pupils study for in their final year of secondary school. Generally speaking, most people leave with 3 or 4 of these and can use them to get into university anywhere in the UK. (Depending on how good they are, of course!)

An Advanced Higher is the Scottish equivalent. Most Scottish students who finish secondary school leave with 3 of these and can use them to get into English universities. However, in Scotland, you can leave school a year earlier if you really want to, with only Highers. Pupils tend to get 5 or so of these qualifications. They tend to be the basis for Advanced Highers, but pupils can go straight to a Scottish university with only Highers if they so wish. This means that Scottish degree courses are one year longer than English ones - if you think about it, they're basically just catching up for that year they never finished at school. If you have good Advanced Highers, you can usually enter the 2nd year of a Scottish degree course. (Because you've probably covered the 1st year content in your last year of school.)

Most degree courses such as BAs run for 4 years in Scotland and 3 years in England. I've already explained the difference in length. Languages degrees will generally last for an additional year (i.e. 5 years in Scotland and 4 in England) because this allows the students to go abroad for one year during their degree.

If you finish your degree course (however long it's meant to be) and pass all your modules well, you will generally graduate with honours. If however you struggle in your penultimate year, your tutors may refuse you entry into the honours stream and you will graduate with an ordinary degree instead. It's still a degree, but it's not as good. It's hard to get accepted to study a postgraduate degree with only an ordinary undergraduate degree, but it is possible.

Degrees have different classes, or grades, if you like. The top one is called a First, the next best one is called a 2:1, after that comes a 2:2 and finally a Third. Anything else is called a Fail! Wink

A First is basically a brilliant degree and should pretty much guarentee you a job if there is any justice in this world, a 2:1 is really good, and a 2:2 is respectable, but more and more people have these, so you are essentially just average. A Third is pretty much useless - so many people in the UK have degrees nowadays that you need a good one for it to have any value. Think about it: if you were an employer and gazillons of people came to you with 2:2s, why would you want someone who had a Third?

Any more questions, please ask Smile

Cheers,
S x

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I would like to blame 6-toe Harris for this, but Squinty McGuinty ain't any better.

Cardinal Synn · Joined: 01 Nov 2004 Posts: 586

Just to add to what 3plus1 said. Although Scottish honour degree courses last 4 years, many of them get you an MA at the end of these four years (science courses of the same length tend to be BSCs). It's confusing, I know. The general rule is that an honours degree lasts 1 year longer than an ordinary degree.

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

In English universites honours degrees are three year courses. Ordinary, or pass degrees are what you get if you flunk, but not so irreltrievably badly that they can't give you anything at all.

carde · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:49 am Post subject:

I've never heard of the final year gaining you an MA but I do know that the 4th year of a Scottish degree is the honours year in which you specialise much more than in other years and have to submit a project or dissertation. You can graduate after 3 years but you only get an ordinary degree. This is very different from English unis where you get honours automatically with just the 3 years (unless you do really badly) - I can see how this and the grading system would be confusing to people from outside the UK!

carde · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:57 am Post subject:

Sorry, I've just remembered I was having this very conversation with my mum and dad the other week there and they told me that an MA in Scotland is the equivalent of a BA in England and Masters courses here are MSCs rather than MAs (they're both lecturers here so I guess they would know). Also, to back this up, I was looking at post grad qualifications in translation and I noticed that the one I wanted to do in Scotland was an MSC and the ones in England were all MAs - even more confusing!

carde · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:59 am Post subject:

Sorry, I've just remembered I was having this very conversation with my mum and dad the other week there and they told me that an MA in Scotland is the equivalent of a BA in England and Masters courses here are MSCs rather than MAs (they're both lecturers here so I guess they would know). Also, to back this up, I was looking at post grad qualifications in translation and I noticed that the one I wanted to do in Scotland was an MSC and the ones in England were all MAs - even more confusing!