Job Discussion Forums

[stavrogin2001]

I have been living and working in China for four years now. I have taught in a variety of situations and have had a great time of it. It is a challenging job if taken seriously and can be one of the most rewarding things one can do in ones life. However having said this over the last year I have met a lot of new teachers coming over and talking about this book, "River Town." I never read it because it was not available where I am teaching, but recently I have got my hands on a copy and have started to read it. It runs true in many parts, but some it does not really mesh with what I have experienced, so my reason for writing this subject is that I want to know what others have felt about reading this book and comparing it to their experience in China.

I have lived in Northern China for the majority of my time here. the bulk being in Liaoning small towns. although I find the cultural aspects and political aspects of the book to be like that of what we have here, I do not see the motivation and desire to learn about things western to be the case. For example, he talks of using Shakespeare in his classes. I have taught lit at three universities with different levels of students and every class has been much the same, they never do assigned reading, 95% of the students are uninterested in learning about western lit, and lastly they have a hard time getting through the language of contemporary writers, nevermind that of Shakespeare or the older works like Beowulf.

Have others had these problems while teaching subjects classes? I am reading this book and have had two feelings about it, either A: I am a horrible teacher and have no business teaching, or B: the students are just not interested in studying these subjects. I have made attempts to make subjects more interesting and they have been met with mixed results. This leads me to believe it is B rather than A.

To end this long story, I would like to hear about other teachers experiences out there and how they have been able to make things work in a deeply politicized environment.

Lastly, if any of you out there came after reading that book, I want to know if your experience has lived up to the expectations that you had before.

Thanks for taking the time to write.

[nolefan]

my feelings exactly! I stopped reading the book when I was halfway through because I could not connect it. It just seemed as though it is a completely different China that he is talking about when it comes to classroom activities.

I teach at a tier 3 university so that might be one of the reasons but still, I do have some bright students and they're nowhere near the level required to read "Hamlet" or "Beowulf", much less understand those books and debate them.

[stavrogin2001]

I am glad to hear some others have had my experiences. I love my students and I think that they are all clever, but they are not really what I would call "problem solvers" or "deeply imaginative". They are however interesting to the point that I have not wanted to leave them yet. I think they are probably easier to teach than European, Australian, or North American K-12 students.

[go_ABs]

I'm not exactly qualified to comment on this - but I will - as I do not teach university levels, and I haven't even heard of this book.

Nevertheless, two things come to mind:

1. Another poster - I forget who - recently said that Chinese university students were largely on a par with Western high schoolers, emotionally-speaking. Not many other posters actively disagreed.

2. And (with 1. in mind) how many of you were able to adequately debate Shakespeare in high school? I remember my English teacher trying to get us to when I was 15, and it was the 'pulling teeth' exercise that so many teachers describe on these boards. We understood the words well enough, but often couldn't relate to or comprehend the larger themes involved.

I was a goody-good at school, and my favourite subject was English. But most people didn't want to learn this stuff - it was a compulsory subject until our last few years.

As I said, I don't know nuffin'. But these are a few things that came to mind.

Cheers,

[Roger]

"River Town" got rave reviews many years back, but I haven't managed to read a copy yet. Will look Cafe Too's collection of second-hand ware in Yangshuo up.

Anyway, I share with you the sentiment that Chinese students hardly relate to things that don't mesh with their personal lives. I taught English Literature in my first year here, and my impressions of CHinese college level students was: totally unimaginative, without any personal initiative, interested in attending school merely as a last resort to avoid having to work in a factory or office...
My rapport with students wasn't all that bad - I cultivated several personal friendships with students from various classes and got away thinking they have the exact same intellectual potential that others have.
But this education system is so bent on conformism that the majority of learners get permanent brain damage.
My students for example demanded I only teach them "who was the best English author of the 16th century, the second best, the third best..." etc. down to the contemporary period.
As though they could not make up their own minds...

[beck's]

I was one of the posters who mentioned that Chinese university students have the emotional maturity of high schoolers in the west. In our university they are extremely protected. They have curfews and there are many high school like rules that they must obey. I think that it is the constant supervision and paternalistic upbringing that makes them such nice kids. I've always seen it as ironic that a totalitarian oligarchy produces the most friendly and well-adjusted kids that I have taught in almost thirty years in front of the board.

I taught literature last term and really enjoyed it. However, I didn't expect too much in the way of academic rigour from my students. I was given an anthology of American literature beginning with The Autobiography of Ben Franklin and ending with a selection from Catch 22. Mostly, I ended up telling the students the story that they were asked to read but didn't. Sometimes I drew a cartoon version of the story on the board and used that as a teaching tool. I had a lot of fun doing this and the students enjoyed it, I'm sure. I enjoyed being silly, which I think is easier and more acceptable to the students if you are older, but realized at the same time that I was in no way teaching at a univesity academic level, at least by western standards.

After the explanation of the story I organized a debate on one or more of the issues raised in the story. Sometimes I would put a quote or two on the board and we would discuss its meaning. We also did role plays based on CCTV Dialogue. One student would be the interviewer and the other student a character in the story. That worked well. I made my class entirely oral. I attempted to give some written work at the beginning but they just copied each other's stuff and passed it in as their own. I felt that this is a cultural thing as they pirate everything from DVDs to antibiotics here and so I didn't fight it.

All in all, I had great fun but I didn't try to beat my head against the academic wall either. I am convinced that if you try to teach in the style of a western univesity professor you will have a miserable time.

[stavrogin2001]

I agree with all posts and I think that you are hitting the nail on the head, my main point was the points that the book "River Town" were trying to make. He made illusions to giving readings as homework and students having very different experiences than those that I have experienced.

I assure you I am not expecting western students, nor am I thinking that I should be teaching in a western way, I just wanted to know if your experiences matched those of the author.

[SimonM]

[stavrogin2001]

One thing I have always been suprised about is that when I teach them Hemingway, they all know about "The Old Man and the Sea.", but they nothing of his life or of the Lost Generation. These things I have had success at teaching about. They like the Beat/Hippie Generation a little too. I do not know if it is because it is modern, or they take comfort in the fact that when the Cultural Revolution was is full swing, there were movements going on in other countries too.

[bendan]

[SimonM]

OK! That makes more sense!

(I was an English Minor and took Old English so I am familliar with the pain of handling that language strangely enough I actually quite like middle english and have no problem with translation of anything post-green knight.

[frigginhippie]

I haven't read that book, but you make me feel lucky I found the job I did, teaching "Advanced Reading" to Junior English Majors. They usually do quite well. If they don't read, or copy each other, I'm direct with them. I tell them they are university students who work like 12 year old children. They don't like this comparison. I also tell them I am insulted when they have me read the exact same answer 5,10,15 times through copying. I promise I won't waste their time if they don't waste mine. The HW improves.

We usually follow the textbook, but I INSIST on them studying at least one of Shakespeare's writings (Sonnet XVIII) as well as Frost and Dickinson, from me, a native speaker, as opposed to their Chinese "Intensive Reading" teacher. This is simply because such works are part of our standard secondary education, and we've learned them from professionals, who in turn learned from hundreds of years of literary critiques.
Students can grasp the action if we go slowly. Often, in a 2nd language, the reader has several vague ideas, but needs help aligning them. Simple questions can direct the course of thought The students all gasp when they realize they have kept the subject alive by reading the poem, 400 years later. They dig it.
That said, of my 4 reading classes, 1 shows no animation whatsoever for literature. I look forward to the other 3, where again 1/4 of the students follow along intently. Of that 1/4, 1/4 actually grasped the meaning while reading at home. So, 1/64 of students don't need help. We're here for the rest
-fh

[frigginhippie]

Ha. I got censored for writing Emily D-ckinson. That's hilarious.