Job Discussion Forums

[Muff Daddy]

Does anyone know of how I can find out about tutoring Business English in Asia? I have my own Business Services company and would like to go abroad as a consultant through this company and tutor Business English for professionals in Asian countries such as Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong, China etc.

I hold a BA in English, TESL/TEFL certification and am proficient in FLS (french). I also have professional office experience.

Would it be better to find employment in Canada first before heading over there? Would it be possible to not sign a year contract but instead work as a consultant all over Asia? Should I start advertising my company in Canada now? Where could I advertise in Asia? Should I contact companies directly?

Thank you for you help in this matter!

[Roger]

You will need to find out how you can do business in China first thing, mate!
I suggest you visit www.dezshira.com. They are consultants and used to answer e-mails for free.

Meanwhile, the inflationary use of the title 'consultant' attracts the authorities' attention.
You canNOT set up a business like yours without having a Chinese partner! This means you will have to invest here. After that, you will have to sort out the problems of power-sharing with a Chinese partner.
Although business English is in high demand you have to taerget a customer base whose English needs more solid foundations than they normally have after 5 years of teaching English the Chinese way! In other words: You have to adapt any concept you may have, as well as your materials!
That's an upbhill battle, my friend!

[Peter]

I did not know what angle to take with this question, but Roger pointed the way.
Your education and ambition is to move in a higher level of English.

This is very hard to achieve as the large majority who need business English can hardly put a sentence together for standard English.

If you come here, accept that mediocrety is the norm; sloppy practice standard, 3rd rate everywhere.

Excellence is damn hard to find and that is what you are aiming for.

Find it in China? I wish you luck.........

[Muff Daddy]

Thank you for your informative replies. If English is so poor in China, would you think the businesses would need instead editors? Or would these editors need to speak Mandarin/Cantonese?

What I am looking for is a company in China/Japan/etc to hire me through my Business Services company as a Communications Consultant and I would work for them over there as an editor or business english tutor.

I am not interested in being a teacher of children.

How much experience would the companies require or would it depend on the company and their level of professionalism? Do connections make a difference in aiding the job search? Would I need a Masters?

Thank you for all your help...finally some non-rude informative advice!

[eric the king]

Believe it or not, some of these Chinese businesses do their business in...Chinese! Amazing eh? English for the majority of companies is not such a priority. In certain sectors, yes, but most, no.
As for editing - I think a lot of folk are already doing this and as Roger said, you face an uphill battle getting established. Yes, connections help, as do a very good sales team who can push your business (as I said, many people have already thought about this English consultancy thing). Of course there are positions available as Communications Consultants within companies but why do you think these companies would want to hire a business/consultant when they can just hire an individual, usually local and of not then bi-lingual, who can do the job. Don't want to piss on your parade but in the big cities here, this type of business is quite developed.
Good luck though

[Roger]

I think you are looking for a position as a PROOFREADER, but I am afraid the Chinese' awareness of their own poor English is next to nil! Read any product lables or warranty in English - and be amused, vexed or stunned! They don't think it is in their own interest to come up with purified English!

There are a few magazines and dailies that run English editions or sections, and some of these do hire English proofreaders - but very, very rarely, and often you have to be politically sinicised! Here is a list of some publications:
- China Daily (the PC's mouthpiece - zero chances!);
- SHanghai Star (owned by CHINA DAILY);
- 21st Century (ditto, an education weekly);
- Shenzhen Daily (set up in 1997, initially with the help of some kiwis, but
owned by the CP; an uninspiring "daily" of sorts;
- Guangzhou Daily (CP-owned, has a weekly English issue plus a monthly magazine);
- That's (three magazines, one in Shanghai, one in Beijing and one in Guangzhou; China's first foreign-run magzine for expats).

I guess your best bet is to start as a tutor or teacher, possibly for a language institute - and with time you will see new horizons and potential!

[xiaoyu]

you might consider looking into working with an international company that has branches in china.... a lot of them employ chinese people but require them to use the language of the company's home nation in business meetings, etc. an example would be GE medical.... i did some work for them while in shenyang.... "teaching" business english... it was more helping them with their presentation skills and with technical manuals.... most of them were proficient in reading technical english and just needed a bit of practice in their speaking skills for presentations, etc. when foreign big wigs where there.... that would be your best bet i think.... if you can get in with them... they are quite desperate for qualified consultants who can help in a variety of regions and areas of technology.... would probably be a bit easier than finding a way to work with a chinese based company and would probably benefit you more financially.... any questions? contact me.
xiaoyu

[Muff Daddy]

xiaoyu, thanks, that was what i was looking for...i wasn't sure how things like this work but i would prefer to work for an international company working in asian countries...something like what you suggested with GE Medical. i am british and canadian, i speak english and french (not perfectly though), i have a BA in English, TESL/TEFL certification, experience in office support with high-profile companies in toronto at the executive level, however i am only a recent graduate (2002) with no specific TESL experience. i guess the best thing for me to do would be contact different companies that work abroad and see what they are looking for, if anything!

thanks for your help!

[Roger]

What you said about THAT's mags is totally new to me! Maybe you are on to something that the vast majority of us here would need to know.
The story as I know it is as follows:
In 1997, Kathleen ran an advertisement recruiting contributors for an upcoming magazine. She set up a western-style cafe in the hip Taojin bar and shop area of Guangzhou. Her watering-hole was very, very popular. Among others that frequented it was a black British woman whose name has slipped my mind. She was taken on board for a while on the new magazine which was called CLUELESS.
Then Kathleen wound down her cafe and moved over to Shanghai.
An English editor took over, Mark Kitto. He has on several occasion been interviewed by reproters of SOUTH CHINA MORNING POST.
I actually have faith in this magazine. Yes, of course, it is linked to some state sponsor because that's what it has to do in order to be allowed to publish. Publishing is, after all, a very sensitive activity. So, somehow they got the Yangzhou municipal authority involved.
In many ways, this magazine is a trendsetter. CHinese publications are learning from them.
There was some fierce competition at the end of the 1990's between three mags. One disappeared (SOUTH CITY or something like that, it was edited by that black English woman). n Now, GUANGZHOU DAILY has accepted the challenge, but its GUANGZHOU TODAY is a very pale also-ran. THAT'S is a leader, and will stay for a long time!

[eric the king]

Roger
I'm afraid your review of the job opportunities in the English language media are a bit over sinister. I think that if you lived in beijing, you would see things a little different.
China Daily - quite often looking for editors (read polishers). Problem is that the pay is very bad. Same goes for 21st Century. Does offer many opportunities to expats and your political stance is not an issue - why would it - you are polishing, not writing.
CCTV9 - they also regularly hire expats to polish. Also pay quite bad but better than CD and give accomodation in the Friendship Hotel.
For both of these employers, just call or send your CV. I had an interview and job offer from CCTV on the same day I called their executive producer. Turned it down though.

Other opportunities in beijing with the many different expat magazines are more or writers - That's, City Weekend, BTM, Metro (ha ha - now there are 2 metros - each as bad as the other!) and more. For these you just have to write and hope they publish. As an ex-editor of one of these, I know they are always looking for contributors.

Now I too could give a lot of gossip on 'That's' but won't because it would only be gossip. Let's say Writerman got some of it right but come on, are you really surprised that a company in China gives kick backs! And please think again if you are trying to portray Kathleen as some kind of saint! Far from it.

The Yangzhou thing was for sponsorship only - every magazine has to have it -now the sponsorship is a little higher up the food chain. Again, I used to work for them (the sponsors, not That's) and what I can tell about this relationship would definitely not be gossip but then again, is not really the interest of this thread. Also, That's was not the first foreign run english language magazine in China. One other beat them to it.

[Edward]

Nice topic!

Perhaps this is another niche market that could grow in the very near future for a few people. I already do such proof reading for a translation company in Guangzhou. As Roger said earlier, simply pick up ANYTHING around China; expensive products, print media items...you name it! They will all have mistakes in the grammar and the spelling in regards to the English.

I recently proof-read an Italian restaurant menu that had been translated by a well educated Chinese woman who heads the translation company. Again, as Roger said, the Chinese with good or even great English backgrounds/educations seldom realize their ineptitude. Some of them react to corrections in their translations with that old "save face" attitude--meaning they will downplay their mistakes as being somewhat meaningless and not so inportant.

Fortunately the people I work with [this is very part time mind you; because the CLIENTS do not want to pay for the SECONDARY translation by a native speaker!] are very open to receiving what corrections I make and any suggestions I give. It's a nice arrangement, and the guanxi more than makes up for the modest income derived from a few hours of proof reading.

I have often thought that a couple of foreigners could cooperate and find a willing Chinese partner and go about [South China anyway] to different well established businesses and SHOW them their glaring errors on their products and services in English, perhaps making a decent amount of cash.

But for now, the amount of money made is a trickle at best [I make an extra 1,000 RMB/month from this small part timing] only because I don't persue it on my own--no time!

I noticed someone said something about Chinese partner/investor needed to start a business here [forgot who, sorry!]. I believe that has changed only recently; for about 1,000 USD, a foreigner can start a business now in South China without a Chinese partner, and fully licensed at that. Few are taking advantage of it as yet, perhaps because it is in "name only", meaning the gov't announced it, but few can actually achieve the desired result.

This article, might give some more clues [the statement of a minimum 500,000 RMB CAN be "overlooked" with the right guanxi, I have seen it happen already!]

http://www.tdctrade.com/alert/cba-e0208g.htm

Any input on this would be great!

Michael

[dialogger]

Pity this thread has ground to a halt.
My recent experience as an English 'polisher' showed that there is what we would call 'editing' work out there.
I was approached by a Chinese colleague to see if I 'would be interested' in editing English textbooks for a publisher.
3/4 months later I recieved a call from a publishing house attached to a large university and over the next 6 months polished texts for 500RMB a book of about the same size as a New Interchange student volume.
I made I guess 6000RMB doing that.
Work was always time critical but fitted in well with classroom duties as I could pick it up and put it down as I had time.
The Chinese principal editor always anxious about my corrections and usually wanted me to say that their approach was 'OK but for obscure native speaker reasons I preferred etc'.
Clearly their efforts were being overseen by a higher up.
Chinese editors generally had no concept of going beyond correct grammar (and their's is pretty good) and spelling to language that sounds good (euphony?).
Accordingly this was the major contribution I was able to make.
The pervasive approach among commercial firms still seems to be 'if it looks like English and it ISN'T Chinese, then it must be English'.
You would think that with all the native speakers around they would flick their signage/brocures to us to check?
Nope - and we still see prestigious companies putting stuff out that is very substandard.
I feel that as the general standard of English goes up and the good speakers enter commerce the general standard will improve but it won't happen quickly as change is generational here. No young bright spark is going to challenge the English of Uncle Ho who wrote the first English product directions for their best-selling widget 15 years ago.

[cj750]

Money is at the root of this problem as the Chinese realy want to do press checks..so even if there is a proof reader....the mistake will continue...

[dialogger]

Don't know enough about the print shop process but I would have thought that with everthing electronic right up to the last minute, changes can be made if there is a will to produce good stuff.

[burnsie]

Editing as many of the people have said is not very glamous.

Even though I do some work for the best University in China it's not regular, quick work and very time sensitive.

For example, I got a call at 8pm one night to do a 3 page proof reading work. It wasn't that urgent, only by 9 am the next day!

Most editor positions is just grammar, they don't want to have extra suggestions on how do make the document more readable, interesting & communicate better.

I also teach business (finance, marketing etc) but most of it is just explaining new concepts, new english terms etc and not really rewarding.