Job Discussion Forums

[Volodiya]

I love Thailand but, for a change, have you considered China?



Drink. Let's talk beer. Good, local beer costs the equivalent of 13 Baht, purchased in the supermarket; 30 Baht, purchased in a local bar.

Salaries. 20,000 Baht, and accomodation, in a government school: 38,000 baht, no accomodation provided, in a language school. (An apt costs anywhere from 3,000-5,000 Baht, depending on where you live.) Lots of "privates" available. Overall cost of living is less than Thailand, by 30%.

In China, people are not really accustomed to seeing "farangs"; they stare. Can you bear having a pretty Chinese girl stare at you, until she catches you looking back?

Well, let me leave it there, as food for thought. If you've been successful in Thailand, you can be successful in China, just across the border. Variety, the spice of life.

[sigmoid]

Well, yeah I've considered going to China for years, but the more I look into it, the less appealing it seems. Salaries too low and conditions too primitive, regulations too rigid, don't fancy living on campus, few schools seem to have a good reputation, etc. Of course, a lot of my info comes from this board, so maybe my view is skewed.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but other than being somewhere different [the variety you mention] is it really an improvement in terms of quality of life?

[Volodiya]

Oh, Sigmoid, you're so practical.

I love Thailand, but China is much cleaner than Thailand [where I live, a leaf hardly hits the ground till it's swept up by one of an army of streetcleaners]; conditions are less primitive [I won't belabor this: almost everything is newer, and better- the airports, the highways, the public buildings: the evidence of prosperity and change is everywhere for everyone to see]; the service in restaurants is better, and they don't expect tips; internet cafes cost 10 Baht/hour; the country is much bigger, and has much more varied sites to see when you have time to get away. Where, in Thailand, can you see what I just saw- the deepest gorge in the world, at 3,000 meters, Tiger Leaping Gorge, and the cities of Dali, and Lijiang, set in the mountains- which rise and loom, at 2,000 meters above the city- with snow on their peaks, year round?

I won't try to sell you: I like Thailand, too. I'm just calling attention to the neighbor, just to the north, in case someone is ready for a change- like a break from the year round heat. In Kunming, where I live, it doesn't often get above 28 degrees C, and winters there are mild, too.

[Placebo]

Had I known that internet cafes are only 10 Baht and beer is less than 13 Baht in China, man, I would've went there straight away. And the girls sit in shop houses, bathed in pink light, just like in Amsterdam? Awesome! Girls stare at you where ever you go? No tips in restaurants? And the best of all: Leafs are cleaned up as soon as they fall from the trees? Wow, you must be kidding, mate... that sounds like paradise... Forget Thailand! I'm going to China!

[kenkannif]

I think it can depends on where in China you're teaching. Having said that most of the teachers I know of in China seem pretty happy with their lot....and that's the main thing!

[Volodiya]

Absolutely right. In a country this big, there is great variability in the desireability of life, from place to place. Many Chinese cities suffer world class air pollution, for example.
____________________

At the risk of totally blowing my credibility (I've lost it with Sigmoid, already), I'm going to add a few things which, as with everything previously mentioned, I've seen with my own eyes and experienced, in China.

Let me flesh out the comments about "girls". There are three contexts that I've seen in China (this varies with the place). Barbershops, much like in Thailand- girls don't know how to cut hair. Shophouses, open front, sofas, pink lights, etc., as previously described. Finally, the more "progressive" cities have set up entertainment areas of town, where the girls are everywhere and call to you, also as in parts of Thailand, except that in China, these areas are fully sanctioned and regulated by the progressive, and health conscious, local governments.

Last- (I suppose I already know I'm gonna lose the rest of you now, even those who've been with me up to this point)- on my trip to Tiger Leaping Gorge, mentioned in an earlier post, our party of five stayed at a guesthouse licensed by the government. On the printed dinner menu was an offer of marijuana. Our group ordered, and smoked on the combination patio-restaurant, together with other guests.

Amsterdam?

(For clarity, and any prospective employers who may be reading this, let me add that I, personally, don't smoke anything, ever- not even cigarettes.)

So, what can we say? China is a surprising country in many ways.

[ResiWorld]

Come on V,
You make it out to be a dreamland. You may have been in a restaurant which had weed on the menu, nothing surprises me anymore. Don't pretend that is the norm, though. You'll be hard pressed to find such a substance unless you are in Shanghai or Yunnan.
There's a lot of good things about living here, but it's not all roses and bubblebaths.
Check out the China off-topic forum, you'll get a more rounded view.

[Volodiya]

[cujobytes]

[Sheep-Goats]

I've taught in both places.

There are two big differences. First, your salarly will be 50% to 100% higher in Thailand, meaning that if you have to save all of a sudden you can cut back and do so. The second difference is that Thai women adore foreigners, aren't afraid of meeting them, and don't consider themselves ruined forever after they've lost their "newness."

Until China picks up its salaries and the girls loosen up, Thailand has it beat on most all accounts. Unless you're really lookign to get as far away from Western culture as you can -- nothing like a mud-hole village in central China for that.

Hygeine in China is much lower, and if you do get sick the hospitals there aren't likely to help you much -- whereas Thailand's medical facilities are absolutely world class.

It takes a real love of China to stick it out for very long there, to be honest. But, if you have the quals and some obsession with Kung Fu or Tang poetry, there's Hong Kong or Taiwan -- better salaries, more open people, more honest business practices, etc. Anyone who wants to go teach in China should either have something specific to get out their experience there or real living-in-China experience before heading over.

[Volodiya]

That's very interesting information, about the salaries, Sheep-Goats. Let's see, 50-100% higher salaries in Thailand, than in China....

Now, how would that work out? If unis pay the equivalent of 20,000, plus accomodations in China- then, that's 30,000 to 40,000, plus accomodations for uni jobs in Thailand. Not bad.

If language schools pay 38,000 in China- then that's 57,000 to 76,000 in Thailand.

Gee, you guys in Thailand really are doing a lot better....

Funny, though, I don't see those ads.
__________________

Certainly what Sheep-Goats says about women has merit. If we're talking about most women, not the working girls, then a word which to me suggests a correct impression of Chinese women would be "traditional".

About the hygiene, I think Sheep-Goats will have to be a little more specific before I know for sure what he's referring to- but, most people that I associate with bathe daily, and brush their teeth. Public toilets certainly are not as clean as in Thailand (frequently disgusting, really); but, I've not been sick a day with any gastro-intestinal things and I eat in restaurants and cafes around 50% of the time.

As to the rest, I think he summed it up rather nicely, as he usually does.

[Stosskraft]

Wow, I left Thailand for China for many of the reason posted in the original post. I got to China to realized everything that was stated was basically true but in the end, I hated China. Once I finish my contract here in Japan, I am heading back to Thailand {or South Asia}, trust me the grass is not that greener in China.

[Volodiya]

Stosskraft didn't say why he hated China in the end but, for me, the language is the single most stressful aspect of life there. While, to my ears, the Thai Language has a pleasant sound to it, Chinese, pardon me, does not, as it is typically spoken. I have heard educated, cultured Chinese make the language sound rather easy to tolerate, but it never reaches a level that I can say I'd like to hear more of it. Added to that is a writing system harder to learn, by far, than the Thai writing system and you've got that problem of long-term inability to read signs, etc., which adds to the feeling of strangeness. Last, but importantly, far fewer people in China speak even a little English than in Thailand, making it harded to navigate through life there, until you've got the rudiments of the language down.

[Bluecat23]

From what I gather China is the worlds most polluted country and this should not be taken lightly. Even new arrivals report of having chest pains, respiratory infections, chronic flu-like symptoms, bronchitis etec. Just my $0.02.

[Volodiya]

There are a number of large cities in China notable for their pollution. There are more of them in China, than in Thailand.

Only two cities in Thailand have serious health concerns related to pollution that I know about- Bangkok and Chiang Mai- where the data show a ten-fold increase in the lung cancer rate, compared to the country as a whole. When I read that statistic, my reaction was, "Chiang Mai!!???", you got to be kidding! [Turns out that the wholesale burning of fields every year generates so much smoke that it's enough to equal a year of living in Bangkok!]