Job Discussion Forums

[juliexcz]

I am about to sign my contract for a public Univ in Shanghai. I talked to the waiban and discussed the provisions I wanted to add or change. She agreed to almost all of them. The problem is she refuses to change the actual contract. She says that the contract I am signing is only used for my paperwork. Once I get on campus in August, then I will sign an actual contract with all the amended provisions we had discussed today. Is this normal? How do I know that they won't change things when I get there or do I just have to take a leap of faith? Anything I can do to 'hedge' against potential problems? I was thinking of writing her an email to outline all the points we discussed today and asking her to reply to the email to show affirmation. Thanks.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[rickinbeijing]

Julie,

If you want to keep in the good graces of this school and its English Department do not, repeat do not, follow the advice of the Whiner. It will only complicates matters more.

Ethical and moral and professional, Whiner? Come on, remember where you are!!!

You would also be applying a Western standard to a Chinese situation, always a fatal mistake.

It is customary for a public university or college to have you sign a generic contract issued from the State Bureau of Foreign Experts in Beijing and then to supplement it with their own addendum. This is standard procedure and anyone who tells you different does not know what he or she is talking about. Period.

Now then, if I were you I would ask the waiban to put the points you agreed to as per your conversation into writing (I would also enumerate those points not only to remind her but to allay any concerns she might have about what exactly you said to her). Politely request a reply of confirmation within a week and print it out.

If the email confirmation is not forthcoming, remind her and, if no reply, look elsewhere. Otherwise keep it as your record and send the waiban a reply telling her of those intentions. Then when you arrive on campus, peruse the addendum to the contract and if something is amiss or missing, inquire face to face and produce the printout. That covers your posterior should you decide to back out of the contract at that juncture. Capish?

Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about the manner of response or documentation. That can vary from campus to campus depending on the position and relationship of the waiban relative to the English Department Dean, etc. Good luck.

[gmat]

Teachers at our public uni had to sign the official contract once we arrived in China as well. The one that we faxed to them (from Canada in my case) enabled us to get all the documentation we needed to get our Visas.

If your uni is a state run institution I wouldn't worry too much about it. If it is a private uni I would be less likely to trust them.

[Queenslander]

I am also about to sign a contract (as soon as the indecision wears off) and wondered about the blank spaces in it. I am told it is a standard contract for a public University, but who fills in the blank spaces regarding salary, overtime, contract duration etc? Does the teacher fill in the gaps? How does it work?

[juliexcz]

Here is the followup to my problem/question, I emailed the waiban and got an email with the following:

"Your understanding is right. Usrally, two parties of the contract do like this. But these points can't be regard as supplementary terms of our contract. For any changes of the contract should be permited and passed by hignest leaders of the University."

From a western perspective, I think she is saying she agrees, but won't change the actual contract b/c she needs higher approval. Anyone disagree? She is making me make the final decision by Monday.

Any help/advice/insight will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[brsmith15]

Please keep in mind that a "contract" in China does not carry the same weight of adherence that it does in Common Law countries like the UK, US, Canada. In those countries, it's intended to be a road map that both parties follow because each has given up a legal right in order to gain something they want. An employer gives up the right to hire someone else for the exact job you're taking and you give up the right to work for someone else.

Most contracts have conditions of performance, what constitutes default, redress for default and something the lawyers call "weasel clauses:" how you can get out of it.

Here in China contracts are by and large filled with Humpty-Dumpty words; they mean what the employer wants them to mean. If you quit, they'll enforce the clause calling for payment, but if you complete your contract you can't always be sure they'll reimburse you for that airfare.

The public unis, though, are far better than the private schools. I resigned from one awful place all according to my contract (days of notice, completing classes) but they still chose to interpet that as a breach. Guess I could have taken them to court, but that's only lowering myself to their level.

What this all comes down to is that you have to be flexible here.

[rickinbeijing]

brsmith is right on the mark. In China, laws are whatever the authorities want them to mean. It is capricious at best, malicious at worst. And always the contractual double standard operates here.

I like China (even admire much of its culture), I live in China, I'm married to a Chinese, but when it comes to business, I don't trust any of them. Period.

[rickinbeijing]

Julie,

She's saying it's not her decision to make. There is a hierarchy of decision-making to which she must answer.

However, if they do not put your terms of understanding in writing, you may want to walk. The supplementary contract, or addendum, is an integral part of the contract, especially in public universities.

Verbal commitments in China are about as trustworthy as Li Peng's concern for the People.