Job Discussion Forums

EFLtrainer · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 30

Anyone currently working as a trainer in a TESOL/TEFL/CELTA, etc., program, could you please post what the salaries are, and what company, country, and city you work in? (Hopefully none will lose their job over this. Shocked

)

Is this a route to better pay and conditions?

tedkarma · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject:

I think you'll find most people a bit chary of posting personal financial and employment information on the net. I know I am.

Other than that point, I would say that when I was working as a teacher trainer (I still do teacher training, but is it not my sole function in my current job) my income was roughly 20% greater than that of most of the better paid teachers. As it should be.

That said, realize that teaching pampered foreigners is quite a different task than teaching EFL students. Assertive Westerners are MUCH more likely to complain, to take offense at the smallest comment, to be somewhat unbalanced by culture shock - and feel you are their problem, to question the value of their money spent - and pretty much everything is your fault - including their inability to open a bank account, find the highest paying job in the country, locate a new boy/girlfriend quickly, learn to teach perfectly in a few short weeks - hey! I'm still working on it after four countries and 13 years! - or or etc. etc . . . Get the picture?

Just as an example: I was accused once of sexism for saying that, in my experience, women are better teachers than men. Call it maternalism that makes it so, I don't know, but this is what my experience has been. The teachers that I have learned the most from, with the most effective approach, that I have observed to be more effective - have been women. Sexist? Maybe, but hardly worth complaining about a casual comment of such!

Try not to imagine that teacher training is a "cush" position. I know it looks that way - and the slightly better salaries are nice. But, I have to say, particularly in Thailand - where the students are so much fun - it is a real toss up.

A small edit please: I wrote the above in the middle of the night hoping to play devil's advocate a bit. There are also positive sides to such jobs. One being the possibility of meeting people who may well become life-long friends. It is still, however, quite a different job than being an EFL teacher.

EFLtrainer · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 30

I wonder if there's much difference from company to company...

tedkarma · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject:

In wages, or in the general experience?

Wages, I suspect would stay in the range I mentioned. No company is going to pay you more than the going rate - in any location. Even major hotel managers are often paid almost to local scale - in very desirable locations.

The interpersonal experience - I suspect would be about the same also. It can be rewarding - it wasn't my intent to make it TOO negative above - but just to point out that your student/customer is quite a different animal in an EFL teacher trainer role than as an EFL teacher.

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

AndyinHK · Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 98

I'll take your job ZERO. Ha just kidding... I know you have a BA, Celta, MA, PGDE, among others... You have a pretty good job at 10 hours a week for 20K. Nobody without those quals could get into a uni here, so more power to you. But you did give up quite a lot of money in the NET scheme to study for your PHD. So are you going to become a teacher trainer at a uni after you're done?

lumber Jack · Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 91 Location: UK/ROK

One day, I'll run across a teacher trainer on one of these forums who seems to understand some of the issues involved in teacher training, and doesn't come across as a smug so and so.

Being taught a language is a gas. The teacher can clearly speak the language well, the students can't, and almost anything is useful. We all love our language teachers.

Being a teacher trainee, or sometimes even going for a job, is a pain. What constitutes good teaching is not a science. Sometimes you will be criticized after observation for what another person will praise. You have to get up, do your best while feeling really nervous, and then get ripped apart (or failed/rejected) for who knows what, by someone with views on education that may differ widely from those of the rest of us who possess years of experience. (Well, the ripping apart is often delivered in a calm, wise and superior tone, but that's not a big bonus).

EFLtrainer · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 30

I see three main issues here: the pay intracompany, the pay differential from company to company, and the pay generally in comparison to what teachers get vs. trainers.

I've heard that CELTA trainers get as much as 2400/mo. TEFL International pays anywhere from 1500 Euros (around 1940 US) to as low as 1300. The TEFL Intl numbers are for a Lead Trainer/Academic Director, i.e., the person running the site and doing most of the training.

For example, the TEFL site in Sevilla has paid 1950 US as of Dec 2004. At the same time, the site in Costa Rica paid only 1350 US. The problem is that the assumption that CR is one-third the cost of Sevilla is erroneous. The costs of living are the same because the CR site is in Manuel Antonio, whih is much more expensive than the rest of CR. And Costa Rica is more expensive than the rest of Central America.

All the TESOL/TEFL cert programs are supposedly 120 hours, so why the disparity between CELTA and TEFL Intl, if there is one?

Any former trainers know what pay has been? How about some of the other companies, such as Vialingua, etc?

As for what teachers vs. trainers earn, the differential of 20 perent has been tossed about. The problem is that trainers often work 12 hour days five days a week, plus weekends. At least, those I know do because you not only train, but actually run the business, as well. With only 2 trainers.

Most teachers working only their regular job will actually work only their regular hours. If you're having to run around to different locations, that's an issue, of course. But they plan and teach. There's no housing, bills, teaching practice, advertising, hiring, training of assistant trainers to do.... etc.

Any thoughts?

tedkarma · Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:19 pm Post subject:

I can only speak for my own experience in Thailand - not about the world industry of TEFL Certs. . .

As mentioned before - and as most experienced posters here have said - we won't get too specific about wages. A general notion is just fine.

You said, "At least, those I know do because you not only train, but actually run the business, as well."

There was some of that - but in fact I worked a four day week. I often worked more than that - but that's what I do - I like to be a value-added employee. And I worked six weeks with the seventh week off. Not a bad situation. A fair amount of vacation time - a very reasonable and fair employer.

Yes, some worked weekends. I had the option - for extra pay - if I wanted it.

I taught different locations - because I wanted to. I wanted my teacher-trainees to be the best d*amn new teachers around - so I arranged for student teacher practice - WHEREVER it provided the best experience for them. This took a LOT of time and effort - never completely appreciated by anyone - but if you want to do a quality job - you do what it takes.

I guess - what you are learning on this thread - is that it is not the easy job it might seem to be. Good for you! It's not. But it is rewarding in that you can teach people a new skill - to survive and thrive in a new country.

The job of teacher-trainer is not for the faint of heart - nor for those hoping to work minimum hours and minimum effort.

I'm not sure what you are looking for - but perhaps being a teacher trainer isn't the best option for you. Particularly in a world where consistency and "sense" is not too often evident.

EFLtrainer · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 30

I have been working, actually, as a trainer. I am trying to get a sense of the overall industry to decide if it's worthwhile to continue in this work. From a personal standpoint, yes. But, with there being much higher pay available for simply teaching, which I also love to do...

The first thing I was told by the person who hired me was that you had to have a thick skin; many trainees wouldn't like you in the end. It's a very intensive process that challenges people's notions about teaching and about themselves. This sets people up to become quite uncomfortable. I like to describe it as teacher boot camp and university finals all rolled into one. Some deal with it well, some do not.

As for being hard, not a problem. The problem in my last assignment was not having enough work to do. So, it being easy is not the issue. Still, being treated fairly is an issue. When you are, for example, starting up a new site for your employer and working extremely long hours, one would hope that would count somewhere along the line. Just trying to get a sense of things. Anyone with any insight into any specifics is free to PM me.

lumber Jack · Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 91 Location: UK/ROK

Look though, what about your notions?

I used to work with a guy in China who waved his long years of experience around, and had an MA. His classes were conducted by going into the room, sitting on a chair and demanding questions from the floor, and then eye-balling the students until they broke down and made an attempt to have a chatty conversation class, western style. (sometimes there were l...o..n...g silences).

That is what over a decade in education had taught that person. He was always trying to get a position as a teacher trainer, and may have succeeded by now.

When I look around my colleagues, I see a number of very different approaches. Yet, in my opinion, teacher training courses are actually quite rigid in what they shove down throats, while feigning otherwise. People may have thin skins partially for that reason.

Ajarn Miguk · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 227 Location: TDY As Assigned

lumber Jack wrote:

"When I look around my colleagues, I see a number of very different approaches. Yet, in my opinion, teacher training courses are actually quite rigid in what they shove down throats, while feigning otherwise. People may have thin skins partially for that reason."

Some may be, but not all.

More often than not, the quality of the course comes down to the quality of the trainer, irrespective of what program employs him or her.

Some trainers are better than others and make the course come alive for the trainees. Others kill it on or before day one.

tedkarma · Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:16 pm Post subject:

Lumber Jack,

Some good thoughts. Ten years experience may only mean one year of experience - done ten times. It could mean one month of experience - done 120 times! It doesn't mean that the "teacher" learned anything over the ten years. Or that they have developed particularly effective skills over that time.

I think that the trainer makes the course - or at least a very good part of it. Of course, you need good materials and good course content as well.

All the more reason - when selecting a TEFL course - that people sit in on the course for at least half a day and see if they like the instructor and materials. Most decent TEFL courses will allow you to do just that.