Job Discussion Forums

[Hagwon Muppet]

Hey all,

OK, I did the ESL thing in Korea a couple of years ago and then went back to school to get my MBA. Missing Asia way too much and having tried (and failed) to get a 'proper' MBA job in Asia it looks like ESL teaching is going to be the fallback position.

I'm looking at the possibilities and weighing up going back to Korea or giving China a try. So some advice is much appreciated, especially if you have taught in both countries.

1. Firstly, am I missing anything with regards to getting real employment in China? I've got an MBA from a pretty good US school (definitely top 12-15 in the country) but I can't speak a word of Mandarin and this seems to be the sticking point.

2. Given that I can't find anything, then my next choice would be a University teaching gig. Preferable teaching business subjects or at least business English. Where's the best place to find these jobs and what should I look out for in China?

3. Salaries look crap in China compared to Korea. We're talking 3 or 4 times less than the equivalent job in Seoul. How did people find the lifestyle in China living on that salary? I have visited China before and it appeared that although the cost of living was cheap it didn't seem like 4 times less than Korea especially when a beer in a Shanghai bar was running 40-50 RMB. Anyone got any comments on how much you can save in China and how well you can live?

4. Related to the above most Uni gigs seem strictly part-time affairs. How easy is it to find additional work? Is it legal? What's the going rate? How do you find it, etc etc?

5. Anyone have any experience of using teaching as a springboard to getting a 'real' job? I would plan to spend time studying Mandarin but I'm reckoning that's gonna take me about 20 years to master (I'm not a very cunning linguist). How receptive are Chinese corporates to whiteys?

6. Anything else I should be thinking about? Those who have done Korea and China ... which do you prefer and why?

P.S. Not too worried about the social/cultural aspects of both since I find these to be very personal experiences -i.e. a lot of people hate Korea and Koreans while I loved it there and would have no qualms about returning, just fancy a change. More interested in the hard facts, lifestyle, earnings, and longer term prospects.

Thanks in advance....hope someone can help at least a little bit.

[SimonM]

[Roger]

I think you have too many career-related questions and you look too green to actually ask them at this stage. My advice for you is to either accept China, warts and all, or go back to the U.S.A. If you accept the warts, i.e. low pay you are also accepting the fact that you are being accepted with your warts. People often forget that getting a job here is a sort of privilege or favour.
Think of a legal position at a university as affording you a relatively comfortable life in a sheltered place. Whether you are allowed or not to make extra money isn't a legitimate question. FOr newcomers like you the immersion in Chinese society should be reward enough - they even remunerate you better than they do most of their fellow countrypeople.

[Hagwon Muppet]

[william wallace]

Nothing to say.

[cujobytes]

[Hagwon Muppet]

[Hagwon Muppet]

[anthyp]

Well, I shall attempt to answer some of these questions, if only to prevent the OP from whining any further.

I think your questions haven't been too bad, actually, although I take umbrage at your implication that teaching EFL isn't a "real" job. You are worried about getting what you're worth and that is understandable. You might want to consider, though, that the market in China is just not strong enough to compensate you adequately for holding that MBA ... not compared to other places in Asia, and certainly not in comparison to your home country. So if you want to exploit that MBA for all its worth, China is probably not going to be that place.

Anyway, I think you could very easily land a gig here teaching mainly Business English classes at a university, say 15 - 20 hours a week. Or you could work for a private school at a higher salary and a bit more work. It's easy to add privates (you just have to look for them), and with another 10 hours of that, you could easily clear 15, 000 RMB in some of the bigger cities. You certainly have the qualifications, so play up to your business expertise.

I do think you have the wrong attitude regarding what it's "really" like here. We have been here much longer than you, we are here currently, if you are going to ask for our advice then don't chastise us for telling you how it is. I think if you were to come here and try it for yourself, you could probably do very well in China ... next time, I suggest you try not to react so defensively to the posts you don't like, and just try to make your questions as concise and narrow as possible.

Well, good luck and don't mind the flaming and grumpy attitude that prevails here, it's Friday and it's been a long week. And no, this isn't my 1000th post on this website, I actually hit that a few days ago but some of my posts got deleted!

[Hagwon Muppet]

[lagerlout2006]

my guess is that with an MBA you can earn as much in Shanghai area as korea although you may put in more hours doing it..Almost certain. And it's not a grand amount anyway. last time I was home bartenders were making 500 a week which is Korea salary.

To the OP---I think the beer in a bar example (Shanghai) is a bit misleading as those places target the 100 000 or so expats with expat salaries.

I am on Korea at the moment and I would say it IS maybe 4 times as pricey as most of China. In the last few days I paid (converting it) 40 Y for lunch and 60 for dinner 40 for a DVD 20Y for cigarettes and 80 y for a (not very good) bottle of wine. 8Y an hour to be online ,Slightly bigger items recently 400Y for a watch 160 for a shirt and 800 for a pair of eyeglasses. 400 for a 4 hour train---you get the idea. Saying all that it's still easier to save since the sheer dollars are higher.

What maybe gets people riled up is the How much? thing (earn or save). It usually leads to a 20 page tirade/thread. Also in Korea 99% get 2 million won and that's that. In china everyone is in a different boat.

You have been to both so you can decide which is better...My one-line soundbite answer is that Korea is easier but not nearly as interesting as China.


(I agree with Roger but I;ll leave well enough alone here.)

[jezebel]

really? I've seen quite a few job postings on my university recruitment website for jobs in China/HK. A lot of these were open to BCom grads, so I'm sure there must be jobs for MBAs with no Mandarin (but the will to learn..)

all the jobs I saw were in banking/i-banking.. don't remember the specifics, but you might want to try contacting some HK-based banks with international presence, or even American (or your nationality, though I assume by the "top 12-15" that you're from the US) banks with an HK presence.