Job Discussion Forums

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 8:22 pm Post subject: PRAXIS, PhDs, and other Cert Woes

I'm about to begin a Master's program here in Arkansas, and while looking into the possibility of working for public schools, I've found that I need to be certified. No surprise there, except that in order to become certified I need to go through another MA program ("MAT"- Masters of Arts in Teaching). The only problem there is, there is no PRAXIS exam for teaching ESL.
Does anyone have advice regarding becoming certified (or the need to become certified) to teach ESL in public schools in other states?
ALSO...
Are PhD's really worth the time and money in order to find a full-time job with full benefits? Or are there other avenues to explore for finding such posts? And where do they exist???
Lots to ask, I know, but your help is much appreciated.
Thanks!

chinagirl · Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 235 Location: United States

http://ftp.ets.org/pub/tandl/0360.pdf

It's the Praxis II, by ETS.

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:20 am Post subject:

Wow, Thanks!

Sheep-Goats · Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 527

Wow. That's the first time I've seen someone look at a PhD purely as a qualification hurdle. Shocked

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Why would you want to teach in the K-12 system with a PhD?

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:22 am Post subject:

Aha! I can see where one would draw that conclusion, due to my own indecisiveness. Just trying to get feedback before I enter the Master's program.

It seems (at least in my part of the country anyway) that most ESL teachers in public schools are bilingual, the majority being Hispanics. I contend that there's no good substitute for a native speaker, but it appears the public schools are so desperate that they're willing to hire anyone who can keep these immigrant kids under control.

Thus, I've determined that the best course of study would be to go for the ol' doctorate so I can teach (and research) in a university here in the states. Of course, then we're moving away from ESL and into Linguistics.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Why not cross one bridge at a time. You may not even like teaching.

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject:

I love teaching! I've been teaching for two years now, doing sub work on the side.

Nevertheless, your words hold merit, not just in this instance, but in life as well.

chinagirl · Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 235 Location: United States

I'm sure that you didn't mean to offend, but there is more to being an ESOL teacher than "keeping these immigrant kids under control." You should be careful when saying things like that.

I am 3 credits away from my master's and K-12 cert. I am not Hispanic. In my area of the country, most of the public school ESOL teachers I have met have good proficiency in another language, but it is only usually the case that the bilingual education teachers are native Spanish speakers. Make sure to distinguish between bilingual education and ESOL, as they are different (albeit often linked) programs.

Most ESOl students in my area are from all over the world - right now we have many kids from Somalia.

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:29 am Post subject: Re: kids

chinagirl · Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 235 Location: United States

I am in New York State. There are many, many ESOL positions in the public schools, with "full teacher benefits." ESOL teachers in public schools are regular teachers, same salary scale, same union, same hours, as all of the other teachers in their building.

DaadaDG · Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 7

The problem is that the US is in transition, and many states are behind the times. In Kentucky, for example, one cannot get certified for K-12 in ESL alone, it's only offered as what they call an "add-on" endorsement, so you have to be certified in something else first. This seems to be true for many states, except those who by sheer necessity (numbers) have realized that ESL is a valid field in and of itself (Virginia, California, probably Texas, Florida, and NY too).

I have an M.A. in TESOL that does nothing to qualify me to teach K-12 so I'm in the middle of a huge headache trying to find a way in the backdoor through alternative certification programs or other ways. Each state will have its own rules about that - you might check with the Standards Board of your state since they're the ones who decide certification and know all the alternative routes. One way to find out is just to look at a couple of major universities and see if they offer a MAT or equivalent in a stand-alone ESL certification. (My hunch is that Arkansas doesn't, but I hope you prove me wrong.) Worst case scenario, you will have to get certified in something else first and add on ESL later. The M.A. in TESOL is your ticket to teaching anywhere BUT K-12 (abroad, for example, or in Intensive English Programs in the US, etc.). I guess it depends on what you want to do. If it's teaching at the K-12 level, there will probably be several options open to you through just a mere 30-35 hour master's program. No need to get a PhD.

There IS an ESL Praxis exam, and I can also say that I'm pretty sure you have to be certified to teach ESL in ANY public school in ANY state, or else teach under "emergency certification" which doesn't pay as well and has a lot of other disadvantages.

If you're not stuck in Arkansas, there are lots of programs out there - usually in high-need areas - that fund you while you train as a teacher. I always thought the one at George Mason Univ in Fairfax VA looked nice, but there are lots of others.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

chinagirl · Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 235 Location: United States

and I might add that if you're not tied to staying in Arkansas, there are Master's programs in TESOL (in other states) that also offer K-12 certs. I'm doing an M.S. in TESOL with K-12 cert included. That's fairly common here in NY. For me that has meant that the focus is on TESOL *and* education in the public schools, and I had four months of supervised student teaching on top of my coursework. It has been a worthwhile experience.

States that I know of that do a stand-alone ESOL cert - VT, MA, CT, NY, VA, MD, CA, WA, OR...and I'm sure there are others.

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:15 am Post subject:

Thanks, guys.

Arkansas does have several MAT programs, but none of them are for ESL, though you can become certified to teach general English (literature, reading, etc) with no problems, and in about a year.

I'm not planning to stay here--but finances dictate that I have to earn my MA here (the program I'm going for will only set me back an additional $8,500 in student loans).

I agree that the US still hasn't caught on to the fact that ESL is a *real* field--here in Arkansas, already-certified teachers can get an "ESL Endorsement" by taking 12 graduate hours. I would argue that this doesn't really qualify them to teach this specifically. Rather, it helps them to cope with the three, maybe four students they may have whose first language is not English.

Then again, there's not much of a need for ESL teachers in my area, and I can see where schools wouldn't want to waste taxpayer dollars for a handful of unfortunate kids.