Job Discussion Forums

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

Can anyone here offer me any insight from either personal experience or word of mouth regarding the education department at univ. of melbourne?

I'm interested in their M.A. / Ed.D / Ph.d programs in TESOL/Applied Linguistics.

Also, does the school have student housing that is conveniently located near the school and shopping?

Thanks.

[sojourner]

RPD,

I, myself, haven't studied at the University of Melbourne, but I know that it has a very good name in Australian academic circles - on the same level as Sydney Uni, ANU, and UQ.

To be admitted to any doctorate programme, I'd imagine that Melb.Uni. would expect candidates to have r'd very high grades in their Honours or Masters courses. In previous postings, you have mentioned that you completed a Master's in Applied Linguistics, at USQ. Was there a significant research component involved in that degree ? If not, it MIGHT be somewhat difficult in gaining admission to a doctorate programme at such a prestigious institution as Melb.Uni. Why don't you contact the dept of Education (or Applied Linguistics) ? If you are not admitted to Melb.Uni, there are other unis in and around Melbourne that you could choose from, eg: Latrobe, Monash, RMIT, and Deakin.

Anyway, Melb Uni is very close to the city. A short tram ride (about 10 minutes) will take you to the heart of the city (Flinders Street Station).On and around campus, there are halls of residence - but I'd imagine that the boarding fees would be quite high - also, from what I've heard, many of the (undergraduate)residents would be noisy prepy-types ! There might also be student flats actually owned by the uni - contact the uni housing or accommodation office. Melb.Uni is in the Carlton area - very colourful place, with plenty of Italian restaurants and late 19th Century terrace houses. But as it is so cosmopolitan and close to the city centre, many yuppies live there - thus ensuring that rents would be quite high. But you should be able to find a reasonable share-accommodation situation, with other students, a couple of miles away from the uni, close to a tram route .

You would like Melbourne - probably Australia's most cosmopolitan city ! Greek, Italian and other ethnic restaurants abound.There is an excellent art gallery/cultural centre, close to Flinders Street Station. Also, there are some excellent parks and gardens around the city.

Apart from Melbourne, have you considered any other Australian city ? I would also recommend Adelaide (my home town !). Another place worth considering is Brisbane. The University of Queensland is located in a very pleasant, leafy, riverside suburb, called St Lucia - and is only about 20-30 minutes by bus from the centre of Brisbane.

I believe that with a student visa, one is permitted to work for up to 20 hours pw.There are a number of language schools in Melbourne - but, as you have already remarked, most teaching jobs there are on a casual or on-call basis. But if you put your name down at a dozen schools, you just MIGHT be able to do 20, or so, hours of teaching pw !

Regards,

Peter

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

Hi Peter,

That was really nice of you to apply with all that useful info.
Thanks a lot!

Will PM you.

[eltbert]

[chipy66]

While i generally agree with most of what was said in the last post about the university of melbourne. The tuition and living costs for my friend are not discounted at all. He pays upwards of $20,000 AUD for tuition and heaps of money for rent.
My friend says that there is a multi million dollar asian recruitment service going on right now. Apparently the schools make most of their money from asian students paying international fee's and then taking extra years because there english isnt great.

anyways melbourne is a great city regardless. It seems like there is much more happening here than sydney.

[rickit]

If you are considering coming to study in Australia, be aware that the university system here struggles for funding and consequently sells degrees to non-Australians, whether these are permanent residents or on student Visas.

There has been a great deal in the news these past months on corruption in universities in Australia. This doesn't mean that if you are hard-working and play by the rules that you won't get something out of your education: you will. You should realize, however, that any country that sells its degrees without demanding an English entrance score that is adequate to meet the demands of university study, in addition to dismantling tenure and ongoing positions, i.e., hiring casual staff that are paid by the hour to teach classes and feel constrained to pass sub-standard work because they need to keep their jobs-- well-- you've got a bad situation all around, in my opinion.

That doesn't mean, however, that I didn't work my ass off, get good grades and learn something. But having said that, I was probably in the miniority when it came to plagiarism and I found my classes extremely frustrating due to the nearly complete inability of my colleagues to speak the language. They also seemed to want me to do their work for them.

Don't expect to get an easy ride: nobody gets an easy ride in a situation like this. And unless you can pay for your PhD? Forget about it.

R

[KCA420]

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[rickit]

Thanks, mate.

What about you? Are you in Oz?

Cheers,

Rickit

[KCA420]

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[rickit]

Hi again,

Yes, I'm on contract as well, the contract is ending-- and that's why we're leaving the country again, or changing professions entirely. I've had it. There is no place to work here where we can plan ahead for more than three months at a time, it's too stressful for me and I. Have. Had. It. This country is no place to work if you're a teacher!

And then of course there's Howard with his IR deform on the horizon... OH GOODIE.

Nope. We have to get out, I'm afraid.

Hope to hear from you further on your thoughts and potential moves!

Cheers,

Rickit

[Miyazaki]

Interesting comments.

I would agree with them specifically those regarding the Asian students who can't really perform academically in English.

Australian universities and the economy are making billions of dollars I'd guess with international students (mostly from Asia), both external and internal.

I think Australian schools have also devalued postgraduate degrees due to their lack of rigorous standards that you see in North America and the UK - or even some Asian countries.

There's definitely problems here.

[Winmarr]

When I was a Commerce student many of my foreign classmates had pretty bad English (most Asian students seem to do Commerce, as it's one of the few that might eventually pay for itself).

When I was a sessional tutor in Management later it was suggested I overlook the language deficiencies of my foreign students and look more for what ideas they raised, even if poorly expressed. It's fair enough to do so on one level, but at the same time it doesn't exactly raise standards....

If Howard and Nelson would actually fund universities properly the unis wouldn't have to try to hard to attract and retain foreign money machines, sorry, students.

[Frankie Knuckles]

I am a current postgraduate student at Melbourne University and I have to say I don't share this negativity that has been expressed by previous posters. Yes, there may be some Asian students that have difficulties with written English but I have also been impressed by how well a number of Asian students are able to write and speak English. In a number of my classes the Asian students are achieving some of the highest results. In subjects like Financial Accounting, Business Statistics and Business Finance, Asian students consistently achieve higher results than Australian students. They are also very studious and spend long hours studying everyday in the libraries. I think the criticisms of their lack of English is a bit harsh. If someone can't speak English well it doesn't mean they lack intelligence. I think it is very arrogant and narrow-minded to be so critical of students that have trouble with English. I am surprised people on a website like this are so critical of these students who are just trying improve their lives. I fail to see how you could be good English teachers when you become so easily frustrated by international students who struggle with a second language. It doesn't bother me at all if another student can't speak English as well as me. I think some of the previous posters perceive that a lack of English somehow means a lack of intelligence. That is completely absurd. My girlfriend was an international student studying in Melbourne and I know how hard she worked for her degree. It was certainly not just given to her on a platter. I think they deserve their degrees considering even I have trouble understanding some of the 'intellectual' English used by professors and lecturers. I have no problem at all with universities in Australia accepting more international students to generate more income for the institutions. Without the international students Australian universities would not be able to provide the same standard of facilities that are currently available. Local students are not willing to pay much higher fees so institutions are forced to accept overseas applications. It is also not a uniquely Australian practice to accept large numbers of international students. There are numerous American, Canadian and English universities that actively recruit international students. I also do not believe that Australian degrees are being devalued by this practice. Australian universities are actually being promoted internationally because there is now so much more awareness of Australian institutions in Asia.

[Miyazaki]

What Australian universities are doingis scandalous.

They want tuition money - plain and simple.

Rather thang going to America or Canada, where these Asian students would have to write a TOEFL and a GRE, they can simply come to Australia and do an IELTS test and begin doing a 'course work' only Master degree.

It's total BS in my opion.

Australian universities are handing these degrees out to those with enough money.

Furthermore, these "Coursework" Master degrees are easy - too easy.

There's a lot of funny stuff going on here with how universities are admitting these foreign (Asian) students and it's not 'above board.'

Money - the schools want the students money and have made it easier for students to get a post-grad degree without having to actually write a thesis or do a GRE.

It's not difficult to see why so many Asian students are flocking to Australia to get these degrees (as well as Asian EFL'ers who want a M.A. in TESOL).

Standards are low in Australia - That's a fact.

I wouldn't be surprised if employers around the world eventually start to turn away Australian graduates because of the low quality of both the degrees and students.

The University of Southern Queensland, UNE, Monash, etc are nothing but degree mills making piles of cash off of foreign students doing 'on-line' or 'distance' Master degrees without having to go through the difficult steps of doing a Master degree in Canada, America or the UK.

In my opinion, Australian Master degree programs are not up to par with those programs in Canada, US or the UK.

[Frankie Knuckles]

I am sorry Miyazaki but I think you are somewhat mentally challenged. After reading your absolutely stupid post titled "Segregation or Apartheid in Taiwan" I cannot believe the crap that you have now said about Australian universities.

So the Phillippines and India are English speaking countries, are they? I could have sworn that last time I went to Manila the locals spoke Tagalog.

In relation to the standard of Australian universities why don't you have a look at this website of a very reputable international publication and see if you can still try and argue that Australian universities are not as good as American, Canadian and UK institutions.

www.thes.co.uk/worldrankings/

In the top 40 ranked universities in the world Australia has 5 universities in this list, the UK has 5 and Canada only has 2. I would have to say that considering the size of Australia's population it compares extremely well to Canada and the UK. In the top 200 universities of the world Australia has 13 while Canada only has 7. Canada has a significantly larger population than Australia so this statistic is certainly compelling.
Also your comments about the selection processes involved in gaining entry to unis in Canada, UK and the US being much more difficult than those for Australia is not true. There may be a selection criteria that certain countries supposedly claim to upheld but often they are waived if you are willing to pay the substantially higher international fees. Having taught English in both Japan and Taiwan I personally know of a number of students from those countries who got into reputable unis in both the UK and the US with average English skills. So I know from personal experience that these so called 'stringent' application procedures you talk about are not as tough as you think. Whether you like it or not all universities are businesses and they require large amounts of funding to survive and compete with other institutions. That of course goes for all institutions around the world and not just those in Australia as you try to claim. You said that it is common knowledge that university standards in Australia are low. Well it seems that academics from all over the world disagree with your views. I think that the next time you make accusations like you have it would be very beneficial for you to provide some sort of evidence to support your claims. Miyazaki nobody will take you seriously if you continue to make uneducated statements like you have.

Frank