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American Friend of China · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 23

As the private ESL industry in Dalian is still pretty much shut down by SARS at the moment, posting a topic on this forum is a good way to pass off the boredom.

So, with the Iraq War behind us now, its a good time to reflect upon the tense international situation of the past few months. Of course, we cannot discuss politics or religion in the classroom. However, when the war started, many American teachers at my school were bombarded with political questions from their students, especially at English Corners and in adult & teenage classes. One teacher even said that he felt like he was Ari Fleishcher, the White House spokesman. Regardless of where one stands in the ideological spectrum, extreme tact is often necessary when handling these questions. Some of us American teachers tried our best to emphasize that we are just private citizens with no role in U.S. foreign policy, and that not all Americans think alike when it comes to international politics. Some of us are quite liberal on this subject, and in fact, some of us even hate Bush.

Some Chinese students can understand that there is a diversity of opinions within the American public, but then again, some of them don't really understand. However, compared to the 1999 Kosovo War, the Chinese public's response has been very mild, and there were very few cases, if any, of expats being blamed for Washington's actions.

So, when faced with political questions from your students, how do you handle it?

Hamish · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 333 Location: PRC

I explain that, as a guest, I will not discuss the Chinese government�s policies because I truly believe that to do so would be impolite.

However, I freely and completely discuss any other question that arises. There are no restrictions on an American speaking his mind in the classrooms here. During the Iraq buildup and military activities, one shrinks from calling it a war, given the one-sided nature of the contest, I was often asked about GWB. I answered frankly that I though I would be a better President, and that I believed the US�s activities in the Middle East were based on greed for power and oil.

Regards,

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

Gray000 · Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 183 Location: A better place

I tell 'em if I discuss it I will get a free plane ticket home and I'm not ready to leave yet. Keeps me in business and I find it more palatable than the polite guest tack.

MyTurnNow · Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 860 Location: Outer Shanghai

I'm with Hamish on this one. I AM a guest here, albeit maybe a lifelong one, and it really isn't any of my *beep*ing business. The Chinese will be the first to affirm this and will appreciate your recognition of this, but they are often keenly curious about us or at least just enjoy watching us squirm. Wink

Saying that speaking your mind will get you booted out of the country IS a political statement, my friend....

I do not touch recent or current Chinese politics in public, period. I include Taiwan, Tibet, etc. in this despite my strong opinions regarding them. I'm definitely not strongly critical- I'll badmouth their breakfasts and bathrooms but not their government or society. I will allow that I like some things about Deng Xiaoping's policies, and really admire Zhu Rongji. I might concede that Mao Zedong was a great revolutionary and military strategist, but was perhaps less than ideal as the leader of a country. These really are my opinions and they seem to resonate well with the homeys. They are as far as I will go. I will wee-wee all over Bush and his gang here all night long, but I tell them that if they really want to talk Chinese politics, I'll be glad to do so- when THEY are a guest in MY country. And it works.
I've done my homework and I've been here a while. I know how to stay on the road here. If you don't know this territory my advice is to keep yer yap shut.

I also don't talk about explicit sexuality (I tell them to ask their Mom) in a public or school-related arena, and I make it clear that I am not a missionary and will not try to nail my personal religious beliefs upon any of them. I would expect any teacher working for me to follow these guidelines at any school function.

Other than these, yeah, I'll talk about anything.

MT

Gray000 · Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 183 Location: A better place

Precisely, that statement being truth.

TEECHER · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 47

GOOD DAY, I agree that we are indeed "guests" in another country. It may, however, be a useful part of the learning curve for your students to point out to them that while stating opinions in China {by us foreigners} is a sure ticket out of here, that this is a lot less likely to happen in a democratic government run country. This in itself is worthy of discussion in class. I am trying to prepare my students for university in Canada. These are basics differences in political beliefs that I feel they should be aware of. If it involves ideas on how the rest of the world feels about Taiwan.....oh well, there are a lot more ideas just like those where they are headed. Bye for now.

MyTurnNow · Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 860 Location: Outer Shanghai

If I read this right, you are going into classrooms and in essence saying that you can't speak your mind here because the government is totalitarian (and therefore intrinsically bad) but you can in Canada because their government is democratic (and therefore intrinsically good).

If so, then this is really thin ice you are skating on. It's risky for you here and, in my extremely humble opinion, totally inappropriate.

Remember that officially, on paper, China is "democratic". Chinese people are intelligent and able to draw their own conclusions from whatever information they have, but they are extremely unlikely to voice a contrary view in public. (I dunno...what happens in your class???) It also gives them a weapon to use against you should they ever see a reason to do so.

For us as foreigners to come barging in here and pass judgment on their system will be seen by the Chinese as intolerably arrogant, even if they privately agree with us. And perhaps they are right?

Pointing out differences is great. Judging them is not.

MT

Gray000 · Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 183 Location: A better place

Teech, you went a step further than I would. I made the mistake of bashing (I say bashing, what I did was say that the town I was teaching in was smelly and dirty) China and whoa! Remind me not to underestimate the nationalist fervor. Stating that this wouldn't happen in Canada...

See, the problem is that this is true, but it is too unpleasant a truth. Direct comparisons are not so good, and as MT sez even if somebody agrees with you privately they are not going to go out on a limb in class. Even implicit China bashing is no good.

However, in regards to providing facts and not preaching, there's a gray area. When teaching a course with a substantial internet component, what do you say to a student who asks why they can't get an article from the BBC? Not a problem this year, but last year I had this question asked several times, along with 'I can't find out anything about the falling gong (say it aloud, you'll get it) " and 'This link from geocities (etc.) doesn't work.' What should we do? Lie?

I do not actually say 'I'll be sent home if I talk about politics' during class. In class, I say 'I am not allowed to talk about politics.' I do not feel comfortable attributing my refusal to politeness. Politeness is what keeps me from importing my social values - re cleanliness, male touching, prostitution, etc. No, with politics it's a gag order that keeps me from touching it at all. Were it different I could very easily ignore my own biases and referee a discussion about politics playing devils advocate regardless of what they say, good or bad, about either country. As teachers, we can (we should be able to, anyway) throw our opinions out the window and not browbeat the students with our own POV. If I can listen to someone explain that the 9-11 hijackers were heroes because they hurt America and not blow a valve, I think I can avoid trying to convert people. And were I that in love with every aspect of America, why would I leave? So I do resent the policy on politics, I do see it as a mechanism of control, and I would open the subject otherwise.

Besides, guests get to use the good towels. Mine is six inches square.

Anyway, that rant aside, teecher, yer asking for trouble if your statements can even be construed as China bashing. You won't be the one to open anyone's eyes - travel and experience will do that for them. And when a class turns on you, it will be ugly, with punches below the belt, signed petitions for removal, and outright lies. Fer beep's sake, be careful.

Gray

Hamish · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 333 Location: PRC

TEECHER · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 47

I dont believe I mentioned "passing judgment" on any opinions which may be different between peoples in China and other countries in the world. I stated that there are basic differences in political beliefs that my students should be aware of. These phenomenon{without my added personal opinions} are worthy of discussion . My students grasp this knowledge with enthusiasm and make their own intelligent assessments through discussion. I would never dream of" bashing" China. I have much respect and a certain amount of awe for the ways in which China goes about her business. There is a lot of "American bashing" by my students in class however. Though I would like to openly and heartily agree with them, it is not my place to do so. Bye for now.

Hamish · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 333 Location: PRC

TEECHER · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 47

Hi Hamish, You just reiterated my statement thankyou. My statement said that there are basic differences in political beliefs. One of those differences would then be that an American does have the right , whereas a person here may well not. A fact and no opinions added. I find the students figure these issues and differences out very quickly.

Chairman Roberto · Joined: 04 Mar 2003 Posts: 150 Location: Taibei, Taiwan

Very good thread. Allow me to put in my two yuan...

I just finished teaching a semester of "American Culture." It mutated into a barnstorming survey of 200 years of American history, from colonialism, Westward Expansion, Civil War, and the Civil Rights movement. It was a lot to cover (the class was held once a week), but the students seem to be able to keep up. I even did a session on Chinese immigration to the U.S. that went pretty well.

I talked alot of politics...AMERICAN politics. So, that means I never bashed China or tried to compare the two countries. Rather, it was a highly critical survey of my country. In the limited time alloted, I didn't pull any punches...I talked about the Indian genocide, slavery and its aftereffects, and the hardships of women, Chinese immigrants, and the civil rights workers. I shocked my students with a photo of police siking (sp?) their German shepherds on Freedom Riders. I did a one-man reenactment of the L.A. riots. But the whole time I made it clear I wasn't terrified of my government, and that the many reforms in the U.S. came about because of a free press and free speech. I made no allusions to China...but a few of the brighter students were able to put two and two together. Indeed, some students ventured a few timid comparisons to their goverment after my lecture about the U.S. Constitution. (I explained the Constitution was written because government officials are "greedy, cruel, selfish, and dishonest."). To which I replied "No! The Chinese government is PERFECT! There are no problems in China! China is great!"

So, for the record, I am loyal patriot to the People's Republic, but for those talented few that can recognize irony, they know the score. So, it's my policy now that if anyone talks Chinese politics with me, I go into Cultural Revolution mode. They get the hint. And maybe looking into a funhouse mirror is what they need. At least that's my theory.

"Chairman Mao's Works will be remembered for 10,000 years!" (actual quote from me),

The other Chairman,
Roberto

Gray000 · Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 183 Location: A better place

Exactly. The mere existence of someone forcing you to CRITICALLY criticize his own country - with his help- has got to be a huge wake up call, and believe it or not I don't think they'd kick us out of China for it any more than the Moderators will trash our accounts the first time we make an off topic posting. hehehehe
'berto, envy you that class....

but would anybody to teach a survey course entitled '20th Century China?'