Job Discussion Forums

lesgrin · Joined: 20 May 2005 Posts: 27

what experience did you have with angelina's recruitment co.?

stavrogin2001 · Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 92 Location: Liaoning

I have heard good things, but when I talked to them before I asked for school information before they applied for the positions, but they insisted on having all my documents and applying for the position before they would give me any info. So I stopped all contact with them.

rickinbeijing · Joined: 22 Jan 2005 Posts: 252 Location: Beijing, China

lesgrin,

Angelina's Cafe, which steals "Cafe" from Dave's, is a front for a government recruiting agency. The other one is "ChinaJob." I found both to be unreliable in followup correspondence when questions needed answered. Typical Chinese bureaucratic baloney. Better to contact the schools they list yourself but don't expect to negotiate a better salary, just get more fluid lines of communication.

YoungBuck · Joined: 18 Mar 2005 Posts: 82 Location: Hangzhou, China

From everyone I've talked to I've heard nothing but bad things when it comes to recruiters. I don't see why this one would be any different

Mac · Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 77

They had contacted me and asked me for all of my documents so I sent them and I have heard nothing from them. I sent them my documents during the spring break. I received an email from them saying that they had received my documents. As what the other poster had said it is better to contact the schools you are interested in yourself. You then can negotiate directly without a middleman.

frigginhippie · Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 188 Location: over here

can i quote myself?

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?p=233437&highlight=#233437

They contact people qualified for available positions. If you make a request but the position is fillled, or you don't meet the school's criteria, no call. Also, they want all your info before they share the school so that you don't go directly to the school. They are, after all, a business. That's how they make money. My good friend in our FAO said the schools pay Angelina's, then send the receipt to the government to get a refund. I trust him.
-FH

Mac · Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 77

well all I can say in my case is that they had all of my info before the winter break and as far as my qualifications goes I have been teaching esl for over 7 years now in three different countries. Thry sent me an email acknowledging that they received all of my documents and then not one word since from them. Someone posted on here about two months ago that Angelina's cafe pays you your salary not the school. For me I would be a little hesitant about this situation. Depending which school you went to if you had a problem with getting paid you would have to deal with the agency that would be faraway from where you are. Just something to think about!

frigginhippie · Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 188 Location: over here

Hmm. I can't speak for anyone else on this forum, but last year Angelina's replied to me quickly, and I signed a decent contract in under a month. They didn't try to change any info or push unwanted offers on me. My coworkers maintain open communications with their staff, searching for a new Fall position. Try adding Angelina's email to MSN Messenger. They're online during business hours.

My school pays my salary. The FAO secretary brings it to my door every month. I've been informed that Angelina's received a one-time recruiting fee of a few thousand for each white head at my school. Standard operating procedure.

-FH

rickinbeijing · Joined: 22 Jan 2005 Posts: 252 Location: Beijing, China

frighip,

You mean they collect a "bounty," capish?

You may have had good luck but in general I stand by my assertions. This outfit--and Chinajob--does not operate professionally as a referral agency. If they don't want you for whatever reason, they don't contact you. Now THAT is standard operating procedure in China, home of the authoritarian attitude, "We'll tell you only when WE feel you have a need to know." Not just a hangover from Communism but a bad cultural trait, I'm afraid.

Contact universities and colleges directly. The money they save on letting others find you CAN become a salary negotiation point. Oh, yes, it can. When dealing with Chinese, always always be cutthroat or you'll wind up both the loser and the fool. That's true whether it's a teaching contract or WTO.

It's just a fact, Jack.

stavrogin2001 · Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 92 Location: Liaoning

frigginhippie I think that you might have done well with them and I think that is great, my only point was that after 3 years of ESL in North America and 4 years of ESL in China, I should be qualified for most jobs that they are offering. But still after asking for any information about the locations and school names both on messenger and in email, I was told only to send documents and wait.

After having been here for awhile, I do not feel that this is standard business practice and I also feel it gives it a bit of a dishonest air. Anyone that has been teaching for awhile will want to know what schools they are applying for first. If they really wanted to put teachers first they could send and email telling the prospective teacher what positions that they qualify for before applying.

I think that these services are mostly aiming at greenhorns that are fresh in China and don't really know their choices to begin with. In this way it is easier to herd them to the jobs that Angelina needs to fill.

Whether or not they are good or not in terms of honesty and reliability, I don't know, I just think they could be more upfront.

writpetition · Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 213

Angelina's is racist and passportist - and shamelessly, too! I've corresponded with them but they've not had the decency even to respond.

Something will happen, at some point of time, a la the SARS aftermath when academia China found itself woefully short of English teachers, and then Angelina's and their ilk will probably respond to applications from my kind... Laughing

Viva Angelina's...

frigginhippie · Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 188 Location: over here

Sorry to hear you all haven't heard back from Angelina's. Questions not meant antagonistically:

1.) If it's a skin issue, I have to ask, did you honestly expect otherwise? Every school/recruiter/academy I've met requires a photo first. I don't believe they themselves are racist. They are meeting the demands of the students, or better, the students' parents, who put a (groundless) premium on a light exterior. This is the current state of the ESL market in most countries. It's awful you are subject to unfounded discrimination (reading your previous posts), but you did choose China, and with years of experience, must understand the situation.

2.) If they did not reply, how do you know they are 'passportist'? Judging by the number of unanswered applicants, it does not seem to be related to nationality or ethnicity, but rather discourtesy.

3.) With such EFL experience, why go to a recruiter who offers base salary and conditions to all applicants? You should be qualified for much more than 3500 for 20hrs, and probably already have a better post than those offered by nearly all recruiting companies.

4.) If you were a recruiter (i know, i know), would you release all the school's info so a potential client could contact directly before you could claim a finder's fee?

5.) Have you never sent away a letter and CV to a company back home, been told to wait, and never contacted? Monster.com is the world's leader in "we'll get back to you". I don't think it's fair to call it:

writpetition · Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 213

Frigginhippie,

frigginhippie · Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 188 Location: over here

Ask 5 questions not meant antagonistically, get zero responses and an attack on personal character. Receive a grossly contorted misrepresentation of your thoughts to boot. Writpetition, you may have a way with words, but not with my words. I meant exactly what I wrote, nothing more. I said it politely and inquisitively. I asked to try and see your experience through the recruiter's eyes. To make a neutral judgement of the situation.

I have read your countless vilifications of racism. I know how you feel. Most of us have been unjustifiably insulted, refused, condemned, cursed at, spit upon and attacked for skin color. Discrimination thrives in every society - both human and animal - on the planet. You say "face the facts" and I am. In one of the "big 5" native English countries, a Chinese teacher is desired to be Chinese, not Japanese or Dutch, though fluent they may be. I'd expect "whitey" to struggle for that position. It is not the recruiter's preference, it's the market. So please read my words carefully before vehemently replying.

writpetition · Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 213

Frigginhippie,

Without going in for a tit-for-tat and an endless debate, let me get straight to the point and to the core of the issue:

Do you want those who have been discriminated against to shut up, turn away and leave the field? Is that, in brief, your prescription?

Of course, you may choose to answer with a 'yes' or a 'no' or you may indulge a lot of polemics to skirt the issue. That is your choice.

As far as I am concerned, I will raise my voice against racism and passportism whenever I am confronted.

And BTW, when I say that Angelina's cafe asks for a passport, please don't be so naive as to interpret it as being in possession of a passport. Even a school-going kid with little or no international experience knows that passports are required to go from one country to another (with exceptions, of course). Reference to Angelina's, when I said, "Angelina's posts clearly mention passport requirements" implied that they required passports from the big 5 countries. Should I also tell you what those countries are or have you finally got the picture? YES, ANGELINA'SCAFE REQUIRES ALL APPLICANTS TO BE FROM THE UK/CANADA/AUSTRALIA/US/NZ. Applications from nationals of other countries are liable to summary rejection.

THIS IS DISCRIMINATION, plain and simple!