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geekyguy
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Shapingba, Chongqing
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 Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:30 am Post subject: Same School? (Deja Vu?) |
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| cj750 wrote: |
| Only an employee who is sure of the fact that they are worthless...would not expect a raise...or at least a cost of living increase... |
What would it take for you to return to the same school? Those of you that have, what were the weighed pro's and con's?
Did you get a pay increase or a workload reduction?
I feel fortunate that I had a good situation and on the brink of signing another contract but am curious how much room this gives me to negotiate.
Since that didn't work out so well, here are the details.
I arrived in China last year in late September to begin teaching in October. The job I was offered in Shanxi turned out to be less of a job and more of an offer to marry a Chinese girl for money. I wasn't interested. While searching for a job I found an offer in Sichuan. Since I was coming from Datong my main concerns were that the salary was on par and that the air was cleaner than Datong, (even the smog of Chengdu is cleaner than Datong).
I arrived and was made to feel welcome from the moment I set foot in Chengdu. When I was driven three hours to the small community I was to teach in I immediately felt at home. I am the only resident foreign teacher in the county, (only lao wai for that matter), and am not just the teacher but a part of the community in this town of 150,000.
I was told that February, Spring Festival, I would receive only half my pay but didn't give it much thought. I was surprised to learn that the last month of my contract would also be at half pay and that I would receive no travel/end of contract bonus despite my helping her out of her no teacher situation. The summer school that I committed to working for my boss was cancelled two days prior with no time for me to find another.
I have a great relationship with my boss, in part because she is three hours away in Chengdu. She has never had to worry about the job I do as she is given positive reports from the teachers I work with.
My class sizes range from 70-90+ with the exception of four classes that are 35-45 students. Despite the class sizes, the students are fantastic. They are attentive, eager and interested. I've made many friends here including students, teachers and people from around town.
My package includes free rent, utilities and internet. It is not uncommon for me to be invited to dinner with teachers/friends two or three nights a week. The school was very pleased with me and my classes and let me stay in the apartment all summer as a courtesy. I can take a rickshaw anywhere for one yuan and taxis start at two yuan.
Side jobs aren't questioned and I am able to work on Saturday and Sunday at a private English school for students aged 4-14 where I make 60 yuan a class.
I was recently made aware of my boss receiving ~98,000 yuan for placing a teacher here. Last year she paid me just 30,000 and this year I'll get ~47,500 yuan. That includes a 5,000 yuan travel/end of contract bonus. The difference is that this year I will teach ten months instead of eight.
All of this adds up to a pretty good package but I'd like very much for all months to be guaranteed regardless of whether the school holds classes. I don't think I'm asking a lot and in fact this would be a mere 7500 yuan over the course of the contract.
Suggestions for discussing the topic are welcome. |
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ryleeys
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 1101
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:31 am Post subject: |
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The reasons I didn't remain at my prior position were:
1) The material was unsuitable and the company was unwilling to work with me to develop more suitable material.
2) The pay for the number of hours wasn't acceptable anymore.
3) I was literally being given busy work. They would delete parts of their pre-packaged lessons, ask me to design new parts, then without even looking at my ideas put the old parts back in.
All in all, for me it comes down to respect. If I feel respected, I will stay. If I wake up in the morning and think, "I'm ready for work now" more often than not, then I'll stay. If not, I'm going on to better oppurtunities. I didn't work for 4 years in college to accept a low paying job that I won't be happy in. |
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stil
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 259
Location: Hunan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| Yuor pay package looks ok for where you are with a low cost of living, but what is your work load? As i see this you will recieve 4250 per month for 10 months plus a 5000 travel bonus, but what happened to the pay that you didn't recieve last year. Was there an explaination given? |
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geekyguy
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Shapingba, Chongqing
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| stil wrote: |
| Your pay package looks ok for where you are with a low cost of living, but what is your work load? As i see this you will recieve 4250 per month for 10 months plus a 5000 travel bonus, but what happened to the pay that you didn't recieve last year. Was there an explanation given? |
My schedule has yet to be created but last year I taught 22 classes one week and 17 the next. You can quickly add up to the nearly 2000 students I would see in a two week cycle.
The half pay months were for actual classes taught. The school has since verified that they paid an up front amount and that the classes cancelled were at their whim. Several teachers have expressed surprise that my pay was affected by this.
The lack of end-of-contract bonus was explained to me as being a result of my only working eight months and not the entire school year. I came here as soon as I was aware of it and sort of resent this little dig. Coupled with her failure to deliver a promised summer school it made for a longer summer than I expected.
Still, I know that many things about my situation are far above that of others.
Thoughtful opinions appreciated. |
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ryleeys
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 1101
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Yeah geekyguy, I think it comes down to the issue of respect again.
You basically helped them out of a bind. They were short a teacher and you came right into the situation. And then this show of good will on your part netted you nothing. I thought the very principal of "guanxi" was a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" and this seems to be an example of "you scratch my back and I'll take the shirt off of yours." |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| I have now been at my school for almost 2 years now and I intend to resign again. I look at it this way, it's so hard to find a good school/boss that once you've found one, it would crazy to give it up. |
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ryleeys
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 1101
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Babala wrote: |
| I have now been at my school for almost 2 years now and I intend to resign again. I look at it this way, it's so hard to find a good school/boss that once you've found one, it would crazy to give it up. |
That's true Babala, and you're lucky to have found one. Unfortunately, it seems all too often that we're not trying to find a good school/boss to stay with, but a tolerable one.
It seems that geekyguy's situation is in the tolerable area and not the good area. In that case, it's just a matter of what you feel you can wake up to every day for a year, which is certainly a personal decision.
It's been a difficult one for me and one that I carefully consider, as I have never and never will break a contract unless the other party grossly violates the contract and I am compelled to take legal action. |
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JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:02 am Post subject: |
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The mods have received at least 3 complaints (from different people) about this thread being taken off-topic. In response, the NOISE has been deleted.
Once, and just this once, I've deleted any and irrelevant posts. If you feel that your post was not irrelevant, I do apologize. But my decision is final, and I cannot bring anything back even if I wanted to... Once deleted, it's gone for good.
I'll watch this thread for a while, and anything that does not have anything directly to do with the OP's original set of questions will be removed. Barring that, I'll move this thing into the Moderators' forum. |
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ryleeys
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 1101
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks JimDunlop2. I know that one of my posts contributed to the noise and I'm sorry. |
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geekyguy
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Shapingba, Chongqing
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Babala wrote: |
| I have now been at my school for almost 2 years now and I intend to resign again. I look at it this way, it's so hard to find a good school/boss that once you've found one, it would crazy to give it up. |
And with all I have said, Babala, I do like the community, the school and my boss. I've heard so many stories from friends and on this board about apathetic students and deceitful employers. I have been fortunate, I realize. |
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stil
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 259
Location: Hunan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| geekyguy wrote: |
My schedule has yet to be created but last year I taught 22 classes one week and 17 the next. You can quickly add up to the nearly 2000 students I would see in a two week cycle.
The half pay months were for actual classes taught. The school has since verified that they paid an up front amount and that the classes cancelled were at their whim. Several teachers have expressed surprise that my pay was affected by this.
The lack of end-of-contract bonus was explained to me as being a result of my only working eight months and not the entire school year. I came here as soon as I was aware of it and sort of resent this little dig. Coupled with her failure to deliver a promised summer school it made for a longer summer than I expected.
Still, I know that many things about my situation are far above that of others.
Thoughtful opinions appreciated. |
You should have recieved your half months pay if you are on salary. The school should not be able to effect your pay by changing or eliminating the classes. So you should discuss that issue if you wish to resign.
Make sure there is a cap on class hours per week(what you had was ok) and a set an overtime pay rate. Work load reduction is often easier to negotiate than pay increase.
Try to get your bonus split in half and paid at the end of each term. Since you like the area and the school, once the term is over if they don't pay your bonus, you will know how to proceed as to 'extra' help. and you can finish off another half year knowing the situation.
Try and negotiate for 11-12 months pay if possible. It would be resonable to get 1 month paid holiday in the summer so 11 is ok.
But most of all, do what you think is best for you. Don't worry about what others make or claim to make. Do you like it there? Are you treated well by the staff, students and locals.
I live in a 2 yuan taxi, no other foreigners town too. I love it here and have turned down much more money to move elsewhere. Go with your gut.
Roger - perhaps my advice is not the best he could get, but it's just that - advice. It seems to me that asking what to do for contract renewal is quite resonable. Perhaps you could have just suggested that he take what ever they offer, rather than try to make him feel bad for asking the question.
By asking a question you may feel a fool for awhile but never asking the question makes you a fool for life. (I know that's not quite right but the essence is there)
I have worked in Shunde and while pretty and safe in the huge estates, it feels quite souless. Are you losing yours? You have so much information that could help people here, but now you are scaring them from even posting.
Please remember that yes while many are ignorant of laws they should know, (not saying you OP) it can be very difficult to find information out for them. Maybe they can't speak and read Chinese and have no idea whom to trust. People used to always trust your advice, but new posters won't anymore because of your (new) acid tongue.
Good luck Geek |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| stil wrote: |
Try to get your bonus split in half and paid at the end of each term.
Roger - perhaps my advice is not the best he could get, but it's just that - advice. It seems to me that asking what to do for contract renewal is quite resonable. Perhaps you could have just suggested that he take what ever they offer, rather than try to make him feel bad for asking the question.
By asking a question you may feel a fool for awhile but never asking the question makes you a fool for life. (I know that's not quite right but the essence is there)
I have worked in Shunde and while pretty and safe in the huge estates, it feels quite souless. Are you losing yours? You have so much information that could help people here, but now you are scaring them from even posting.
Please remember that yes while many are ignorant of laws they should know, (not saying you OP) it can be very difficult to find information out for them. Maybe they can't speak and read Chinese and have no idea whom to trust. People used to always trust your advice, but new posters won't anymore because of your (new) acid tongue.
Good luck Geek |
Stil, I appreciate your advice. You are right - the question merits contemplation. It is the options the O.P. followed his question with that I originally took the wrong way: pay rise or workload reduction.
I think these are purely material considerations and say nothing about the quality of life and your interest in the job.
I think other reasons should play a bigger role, namely do you like the enivornment? Do you like the social life there? Do you like being an outsider in that particular microcosm? Pay and workloads may vary but quality of life varies a lot more. If you come to a foreign country to immerse yourself in local life this is a unique chance that others have to pay for while you get actually paid for doing it.
I have clearly stated why I remain on the job most of the time: I like continuity (and I do not think the quality of instruction in other schools is better nor would I link quality of instruction with the salary offered me!).
I also appreciate being kept on the payroll - and I said why. In a foreign society where trust is a rare commodity (it is rarer in China than it is in a western country) this is a special gift to anyone.
The longer you stay the more likely you can eventually have some influence over their English teaching style.
Moving to a new place of work every time there is an opportunity to do so lands you at the bottom of the hierarchy and you have to prove your worth first of all.
May I ask you, Stil, why you mentioned Shunde? I don't work in Shunde at all but I know that region fairly well and I taught in a number of schools there - PT and FT. The truth is that I often miss Shunde town and my colleagues and students.
You also imparted valuable advice on spreading one's bonus over two payments; may I go one step further and suggest that all those who have the clout use it to get their airfare and other perks paid out in monthly instalments rather than in one-off payments at the end of their term? |
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stil
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 259
Location: Hunan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| Roger wrote: |
I think other reasons should play a bigger role, namely do you like the enivornment? Do you like the social life there? Do you like being an outsider in that particular microcosm? Pay and workloads may vary but quality of life varies a lot more. If you come to a foreign country to immerse yourself in local life this is a unique chance that others have to pay for while you get actually paid for doing it.
I have clearly stated why I remain on the job most of the time: I like continuity (and I do not think the quality of instruction in other schools is better nor would I link quality of instruction with the salary offered me!).
I also appreciate being kept on the payroll - and I said why. In a foreign society where trust is a rare commodity (it is rarer in China than it is in a western country) this is a special gift to anyone.
The longer you stay the more likely you can eventually have some influence over their English teaching style.
Moving to a new place of work every time there is an opportunity to do so lands you at the bottom of the hierarchy and you have to prove your worth first of all. |
I completely agree with you Roger.
| Roger wrote: |
| May I ask you, Stil, why you mentioned Shunde? I don't work in Shunde at all but I know that region fairly well and I taught in a number of schools there - PT and FT. The truth is that I often miss Shunde town and my colleagues and students. |
I thought that you had mentioned working in Shunde currently. Sorry.
| Roger wrote: |
| You also imparted valuable advice on spreading one's bonus over two payments; may I go one step further and suggest that all those who have the clout use it to get their airfare and other perks paid out in monthly instalments rather than in one-off payments at the end of their term? |
Yes this is a good idea and it is not asking too much of an employer. |
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